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NUFC v Watford
25 November 2017 17:19 Post ID: #485082 - in reply to #485037
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Disgraceful inept performance by a bunch of hapless players. Negative Manager, may be past his best date, poor use of subs and starting lineup full of nonachievers. Takeover cannot come quickly enough because we are about to enter a relegation battle. Benitez refuses to criticise anyone and I have said before Shelvey is overrated, the defence is shambolic and we have no forwards.
The question is, if the takeover happens is Benitez the man to lead us or is he history. Not a jerk reaction but you must admit some of his decisions are baffling to say the least, although to be fair he has not got much to work with,












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25 November 2017 17:22 Post ID: #485083 - in reply to #485080
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Beggars belief why Mbemba can't get a game,a good solid international defender who can't even get on the bench most weeks and surely a 25 % fit Merino would have been better than Diame and don't get me started on the Joselo or Mitrovic debate,surely that's a no brainer.
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25 November 2017 17:30 Post ID: #485084 - in reply to #485037
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I agree about Mbemba. Better defender than Clark, better DM than Diame and there's not much between him and Joselu as a striker. All we need now is the sale to fall through to round off the year nicely. I fucking hate supporting this club sometimes because it's like constantly being kicked in he bollocks.

Edited by vin1892 25/11/2017 17:31
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25 November 2017 17:30 Post ID: #485085 - in reply to #485037
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I can only think these players are arseholes and Benitez sees it weekly in training, I can believe it with Mitrovic and Aarons and he plainly didn't want to rush Merino back, either that or he's stubbornly making a point as was said earlier, showing Ashley or the new owner, 'Look at the shite I've got here.'
Mbemba I've liked from day one and think he's better than all 4 of them so called defenders who played today.
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25 November 2017 17:30 Post ID: #485086 - in reply to #485037
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Totally agree laz always like Mbemba and far better than the free transfer from the tramps. No doubt in ky mind Benitez is a good manager but some of his decisions are bizarre Joselu is shit Elliot is shit and he got rid of Krulband favoured mr blobby.
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25 November 2017 17:31 Post ID: #485087 - in reply to #485037
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did not expect Diame to start after his poor game at Burnley , Mbemba needs to play same with Mitrovic .
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25 November 2017 17:42 Post ID: #485088 - in reply to #485081
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keggy_keagal - 25/11/2017 17:18

I always say who could do a better job with the players available ? I used to ask myself this when Pardew was in charge and I'd easily be able to rattle off 20 managers. I'm sure there are managers who could do as well as Benitez but not better. A bad day but there's brighter skies on the horizon .


Would you still buy the club knowing how much you'd have to spend just to keep it up? I don't think it will happen personally but I'd be delighted if it did happen.
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25 November 2017 17:47 Post ID: #485089 - in reply to #485037
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Thing is if any of our previous managers served up the dross benitez does everyman and his dog would be calling for his head. Imagine if pardew was still manager and got the results benitez has shown.

Remember we've only played Manure/Spurs/Liverpool out of the good teams we still have to play Man city/Arsenal/Chelsea.
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25 November 2017 17:54 Post ID: #485090 - in reply to #485037
Rafa's not infallible but just look at the side . We haven't strengthened the side and squad properly in years .

1 Elliot = Isn't a Premier League quality keeper, Championship at best .

22 Yedlin = Whippet quick but unproven in the Premier League, .

20 Lejeune = Unproven in English football

2 Clark = Lower end Premier League player at best

19 Manquillo = Failed at Liverpool/ Failed at Marseille/ Failed at Sunderland, failing at Newcastle United

11 Ritchie = Decent steady Eddie Premier league standard player

8 Shelvey = Played plenty of Premier League but been inconsistent at Liverpool and at Swansea. Prone to high levels of stupid fuckery.

10 Diamé = Looked OK at both Wigan and West Ham ,those days seem very far away now . Hull in The Championship seems his level. Lazy fucker.

7 Murphy = Unproven in the Premier League, a bairn.

9 Gayle = Great in the Championship, fully fit and at his absolute best a 1 goal in 3 games striker in the Premier League which isn't good enough.

21 Joselu= Played 20+ games for Stoke so should have an idea of what's required, but looks like a bloke who's wandered into the stadium, been given boots and a kit and told to have a go. Shamefully one footed. When someone next tells you foreign players have better technique show them Joselu .

Subs:

Merino = A bairn, new to English football and the club, looks class but was he really fit the day ? It's an indictment of the team and squad that he's already a key player.

Perez = I still don't know what this lads best position is . Neither does he , neither does Rafa.

Mitrovic = Popular rent a loon who Benitez (quite understandably) doesn't trust not to lose the plot and attempt to murder a rival player at the drop of hat. Now used as a sometime blunderbuss. Couldn't score consistently in the 2nd best league in this country so how can anyone expect him too now the quality's stepped up I don't know.

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25 November 2017 17:55 Post ID: #485091 - in reply to #485089
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billybobcat - 25/11/2017 17:47

Thing is if any of our previous managers served up the dross benitez does everyman and his dog would be calling for his head. Imagine if pardew was still manager and got the results benitez has shown.

Remember we've only played Manure/Spurs/Liverpool out of the good teams we still have to play Man city/Arsenal/Chelsea.


So you want him out? It's called having faith in a manager, like Robson, like Keegan, some you trust some you don't, in my opinion to compare Benitez to the likes of Pardew is ridiculous, but that's not to say he's beyond criticism.
Everyone has different opinions, but at times under Benitez with a clearly sub standard squad he's had us organised and holding our own against far superior opposition. When that squad has even one or two missing like today then it shows. I said a while ago he's taken these players as far as he can and needs investment to progress, if that doesn't happen then he's gone, but personally I'd like to see what he could do with real money and ambition, then I'll judge him.
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25 November 2017 18:01 Post ID: #485092 - in reply to #485088
billybobcat - 25/11/2017 17:42

keggy_keagal - 25/11/2017 17:18

I always say who could do a better job with the players available ? I used to ask myself this when Pardew was in charge and I'd easily be able to rattle off 20 managers. I'm sure there are managers who could do as well as Benitez but not better. A bad day but there's brighter skies on the horizon .


Would you still buy the club knowing how much you'd have to spend just to keep it up? I don't think it will happen personally but I'd be delighted if it did happen.


I think we're three players away from a side guaranteeing Premier League survival . A decent keeper , a decent striker and a number 10.

I also think we'll stay up without them .

Edited by keggy_keagal 25/11/2017 18:02
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25 November 2017 18:32 Post ID: #485095 - in reply to #485037
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PK where have I stated I want him out. I've just stated if any of our previous managers served up the shite benitez has served up in the last month people would be calling for their heads.

I just don't hold him up like people on here do when they say he's world class. Yes he hasn't had the money other managers have had, but the money he has had he's wasted it on some dogshit players. If this sale of the club doesn't go ahead we will be one of the 3 that goes down.
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25 November 2017 18:39 Post ID: #485096 - in reply to #485037
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Keggy Perez best position is in the changing room but Benitez clearly likes him. We dont have anything upfront.
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25 November 2017 18:40 Post ID: #485097 - in reply to #485073
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vin1892 - 25/11/2017 17:05

Is Rafa yesterday's man? Are the new young coaches more switched on to the modern game? The fact he brought Diame in and stuck with Joselu makes me fucking wonder. Is he deliberately playing our shittest players to make a point? Has he changed to two strikers to prove that when you've got shit players it doesn't really matter what system you play? At some point he's got to fucking man up and take a bit of responsibility. He can't live off the luckiest Champions League win ever, for ever. Valencia was a fucking long time ago as well. A nice, decent bloke but lets have 5 fucking million quids worth of manager.


You could be right vin he could be playing the shit players to prove to fatty that if he doesn't invest they will get relegated yet again.
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25 November 2017 19:26 Post ID: #485098 - in reply to #485037
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Bbc... The fact that Benitez is world class and the vast majority if fans recognize thus is why they are not calling for his head.
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25 November 2017 19:56 Post ID: #485099 - in reply to #485037
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It's not over til the fat manager, sings....
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25 November 2017 20:01 Post ID: #485100 - in reply to #485037
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I don't agree because if he was world class he wouldn't be managing us. Why haven't big clubs come in for him if he was as you put it world class.
Again I'm not calling for his head i just dont see what others see in him to be calling him world class.
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25 November 2017 20:06 Post ID: #485101 - in reply to #485037
Im probably one of the people being tagged as thinking Rafa does no wrong but that would be incorrect as he's only human. You can only improve as a team and in your job by making the mistakes that then need worked on in the future and Rafa will have done.

Today wasn't so much about Rafa getting it wrong, it was about certain players not doing the job they were there to do and even then, this would take away from how good a performance Watford had on the day.

That Richarlison had a hell of a game and looks a top drawer player. He embarrassed Yedlin for pace many times.

They pressed us high in the first half in order to stem our game as we couldn't really get the ball but then we were reluctant to clip it over the top. Second half started like Rafa had told them to mix it up before they dropped off a bit but we just couldn't get near their midfield with their extra man.

The ref didn't help with yet another shite showing but he didn't really influence the result as we were beaten fair and square with no excuses.

We can pick individuals out as shite and for example, the second goal for them was a deflected effort granted, but I thought Elliot's positioning was wrong and he should have saved it.

Joselu is going down the Guivarch, Thommasson and the many other donkey's we've had, route in that he needs to do something and fast or he'll be out in January regardless of takeover. The miskick in the first half was bad enough but what he was doing in the second when he just needed to control the ball to shoot and just slid it on target is beyond me.

I thought Rafa was spot on with his subs and right to wait because for all the warming up they were doing, I actually thought he wasn't going to bother excusing some of the dross we had served up and leave the players on to face the flak. For what it's worth, Mitrovic and Merino did ok.

Jacob Murphy was our best on the day.
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25 November 2017 21:28 Post ID: #485102 - in reply to #485037
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Toony you say about improvement coming from making mistakes in the job.Well Rafa keeps making the same ones over and over again in team selection.Diame shouldnt be anywhere near the 1st team.Joselu is shite and shouldnt be picked either and as for manquillo he is in the same bracket.Been mentioned earlier but surely Mbemba Mitrovic can do better.Granted Diame only played because Merino was 1st game back but Rafa has a stubborn streak towards having his favourites and this is costing us.
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25 November 2017 21:31 Post ID: #485103 - in reply to #485037
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"Today wasn't so much about Rafa getting it wrong"

Benitez sets the team up at home to stifle the opposition.

The minute they went behind they were knackered as Waterford went from dominating possession to playing on the break where they murdered us.

His predictable and in my opinion boring brand of football only works when you have a mix of genuine quality in a team of hard workers.

The squad are not brilliant but they are better than Brighton or Huddersfield.

It's the tactics.

He is getting it wrong.

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25 November 2017 21:57 Post ID: #485105 - in reply to #485037
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2nd outing of the season with the grandbairn.
Atmosphere fkn dreadful even before they scored.Baffled by Rafa's team selection.
Mbemba,Merino & Mitrovch should have started or at least come on after half time.
Shelvey & Diame in the middle of the park,paceless.
Joselu & Gayle up top,championship players at best.
Defence,leaky as fuck.
We either sign a top class striker,a number 10 & a proper keeper in January or it's another relegation.
Murphy had a canny game,that's about it.
No anti tubby songs sang & some bloke got evicted for having a tab at half time,unless the fat one sells up quick we're fkn doomed.
On a brighter note mi 6yr old did a rainbow flick this morning next to the chippy & volleyed it just past the post & smiled.
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25 November 2017 22:18 Post ID: #485106 - in reply to #485103
For ages people were saying that a lone striker wasn't the way to play. Lately he's gone to two uptop and that's not working from an attacking point of view and has destabilized the midfield and defence. The truth of it is he hasn't got a squad capable of playing a variety of tactical approaches. Piemag's right in that the squad isn't worse than Brighton or Huddersfield player for player but they had a summer where the staff were allowed to work on building a squad to suit their tactical approaches. I think Benitez had a summer where he had to keep revising things depending on the personnel he was able to recruit.

We're a table with two legs , a third stuck on with no nails and a book under a wonky fourth. I don't believe for a second Benitez would choose to sign Manquillo as top of his shortlist of full backs nor that Joselu was top of his striker list. Both of those signings smack of who can we get within the remit set by the board as we needed bodies. I also know for a fact that there were players expected to be signed that simply weren't.

Rafa's not faultless by any stretch, his persistence with Joselu is understandable from a point of view of hoping he plays his way into some sort of form but that's simply not happening . Like many others I think that even lacking goals Mitrovic offers more. Why Diame's at the club I don't know. How Manquillo can get in ahead of Mbemba or even Gamez is equally puzzling. Maybe they're showing things in training that we aren't seeing on the pitch. Benitez needs to go back to his 4-4-1-1,it's the system he feels most comfortable with and it's the system the squad are most familiar with. Whatever his current methodology is for selecting players needs to change too . How I judge how successful training is is by the performances in the match and those mentioned above have been lacking before today . All that being said we did still create chances. Joselu should have equalized (Shelvey also blazed over) and at that stage it could well have turned the game.

Edited by keggy_keagal 25/11/2017 22:20
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25 November 2017 22:22 Post ID: #485108 - in reply to #485037
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Excellent post keggy.
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25 November 2017 22:28 Post ID: #485109 - in reply to #485037
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I agree,all the restrictions are down to one man & it's not the Spaniard.
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25 November 2017 22:34 Post ID: #485110 - in reply to #485037
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Aye good post keggy

I suspect Benitez prefers Joselu over Mitrovic because of the work rate and pace his system relies on.





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25 November 2017 22:40 Post ID: #485112 - in reply to #485037
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Funny game this one again, most of the teams outside the usual Sky stars are shite, foreigners have fucked up our game, overpaid no loyalty and most of them won’t put in a decent shift. It’s most definitely not the game I went to 20 yrs a good.
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25 November 2017 23:42 Post ID: #485113 - in reply to #485112
CM - 25/11/2017 22:40

Funny game this one again, most of the teams outside the usual Sky stars are shite, foreigners have fucked up our game, overpaid no loyalty and most of them won’t put in a decent shift. It’s most definitely not the game I went to 20 yrs a good.


Fuck off with your xenophobic bullshit. You're just bitter about Payet. I didn't hear West ham fans moaning about loyalty when you were sacking Bilic or signing Tevez and Mascherano, ? Foreigners have made the game in this country far far better. We all have a habit of romanticizing our younger supporting years but on a technical level the game's come on leaps and bounds in the last 25 years and I'd certainly rather watch most of the modern day games compared to some of the stuff in the mid 80's for example. Liverpool going a goal up then it's Hansen, to Grobbelaar, Grobbelaar to Whelan, Whelan to Grobbelaar, Grobbelaar to Lawrenson for half a fucking hour. Or the kick and rush days and managers telling players like Beardsley they were too small and banging on about playing the ball into gulleys and 3 pass optimization.

If you'd said bang average imports that are cheaper to buy and pay than young U.K. and Irish players you may have an argument. Are you really suggesting the game in this country hasn't been improved by players like Aguero, Silva ,Henry , Bergkamp, Cantona, Ronaldo ? Doesn't seem like 5 minutes since your mob were wanking yourselves silly over Di Canio.
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26 November 2017 00:00 Post ID: #485114 - in reply to #485037
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The foreigners.Remember being inspired by Pele as a youngen in Sheffield playing for Santos.
Took the day off school to watch him,he ran the show.
Scots,Italians,Germans,Brazilians.Blame the fkn foreigners.


Edited by Rytoon 26/11/2017 00:17
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26 November 2017 00:42 Post ID: #485115 - in reply to #485037
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West Ham have always been shite whether the team’s full of English or foreigners, I find their recent moaning amusing, like they’re historically successful or something.
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26 November 2017 01:31 Post ID: #485116 - in reply to #485037
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Aye,west ham are meaningless.
Meanwhile the whole of us sit & wait on the brink,being fed crumbs.
The end of January either tubbies gone or not.
I'd hoy his effigy & the wonga tops on the Tyne Bridge,have a fire if he decides to stay.


Edited by Rytoon 26/11/2017 01:50
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26 November 2017 01:37 Post ID: #485117 - in reply to #485037
Reflecting on today's game, nowt's changed. We're still in a relegation battle and this was always going to be the season objective.

8 points separate 9th and bottom. We're 2 points from 9th but know the task. If any of the other 11 teams in our objective haven't taken the scenario serious then our job gets easier.
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26 November 2017 02:04 Post ID: #485118 - in reply to #485037
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Reflecting on today's game is all well & good.
Tis a bit deeper than that tho toon.
What happens if that fucker's still in our city come February?
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26 November 2017 06:27 Post ID: #485120 - in reply to #485037
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Overseas players and managers have been fantastic for the league..bringing all they offer in terms of skill, ethos and ancillary stuff that now comes with the game. I am all for it. I just feel it should be limited to maybe 4-5 per squad, this would hopefully ensure good players can impart their knowledge etc to local players ( in my world as well as a cap on lads from overseas I would make it mandatory to have at least 2 players born an bred within a radius of 10 miles from a clubs town or city ).
My case in point would be Diame getting a game ! Just an average plodder... no need for him .. give his slot to a local lad or English lad . The reason I say this as our national team is struggling big time.. commentators yesterday were mentioning Will Hughes must be in with a shout of breaking into the national team !!!!! Really , what's the criteria for that ? English and plays in the prem ? . How about waiting and monitoring his performances over a period of time .. If he's playing well for half a season draft him in... not based on 3 games ffs.
Youth level for the national game is flying, not sure of the numbers of overseas players but I guess it's a lot smaller than what the the national team has to compete with.

I know my ideas are pie in the sky and will never be implemented, but would like there to be more English players for the national manager to choose from
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26 November 2017 08:15 Post ID: #485121 - in reply to #485037
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Numerous problems, the full backs are rubbish at defending, the central defenders were poor yesterday and the keeper is average at best, slow to get down to the deflected goal. Then we have the midfield, Shelvey lazy and overrated, Diame poor, Ritchie poor in tracking back and a bit predictable going forward, Murphy deserves a run in the team, lively. In attack Joselu Div 1 standard, Gayle Champioship standard.
The signs are not good with the upcoming games likely to see us in bottom three by end of year.
The problem then is you have to hopefully blend in new players and that takes time which we have not got.
I thought yesterday was a shambles and I am not hopeful.
The only light is the takeover, can't come quickly enough. The thing is will they still be interested in a relegation battle side and will Ashley drop the price in the context of a possible drop to the Championship and loss of finance.
Make no mistake we are in for a battle and other relegation zone clubs will be battling harder than we appear to be. I think complacency has set in.
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26 November 2017 09:03 Post ID: #485122 - in reply to #485037
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Fair comments, leaving aside the handful of top foreign players that the big sides have on their books, there are far too many very overpaid average players playing in sides at the moment, 20 million for the likes of Ayew who can’t even stay on his feet for more then three steps is a prime example, you have several of them on your books too. Our under 17 team just won the World Cup, how many of them will actually make it? This St Georges academy is a great idea and seems to be working for the younger sides. Unfortunately most will end up in the lower divisions if they are lucky as premiership teams at the moment prefer to import instead of giving young English lads a chance. The FA should limit the amount of foreign players playing in a game to a maximum of three per side. If it stays as it is the big money clubs will always be streets ahead of the rest of us.
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26 November 2017 11:30 Post ID: #485123 - in reply to #485037
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Rafa says it does not matter whether we play with one striker or two but in fact they are playing with zero strikers.
Usual waffle about all pulling together but he needs to drum that into the clowns on the pitch not the fans.
How many times have we heard from a variety of Managers that we are working hard on the training ground. Waffle.
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26 November 2017 11:47 Post ID: #485124 - in reply to #485037
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In his case I believe he’s working them in training, I heard an interview with Lascelles and he said he’s meticulous, constantly stopping them and making them repeat and repeat their positioning and movement. Sadly there comes a point that you can only work with what you have and that point looks to have arrived. The best players have football intelligence and guile as well as desire, that costs money.
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26 November 2017 12:16 Post ID: #485125 - in reply to #485037
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This is probably the weakest squad of players we've had in the top flight under Ashley. Our two relegation squads were much better than the current squad on paper, although the current squad is more hard working. However hard work without quality rarely gets you anywhere.

De Yedlin, Manquillo, Diame, Elliott and Joselu all need dropping against West Brom.

Edited by vin1892 26/11/2017 12:20
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26 November 2017 12:31 Post ID: #485126 - in reply to #485106
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keggy_keagal - 25/11/2017 22:18
We're a table with two legs , a third stuck on with no nails and a book under a wonky fourth.

That's probably the best analogy that I have seen about our current situation.

It is down to Ashley insistence on maintaining the cash situation. With the timing of TV payments, there is enough for the wages until Christmas. The transfer surplus (including finalising Merino) comes from Sissoko instalments and Thauvin.

The club will be cash rich at the end of the season but others, like Brighton, Huddersfield and yesterday's opponents have invested those windfalls already. So many smaller clubs are benefiting from more recent Premier League income.

Rafa was right in looking for GK, LB and more quality up front. A few of injuries and loss of form (Lascelles, Merino, Ritchie, Atsu, Hayden) have exposed the lack of depth and quality.

At the end of the day, we need 8 wins for safety. Hopefully a new investor will provide cash in Jan, if not, Rafa has some dealing to do but there will be a bit in the kitty. A couple of purchases and a couple of loans should make all the difference.
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26 November 2017 13:12 Post ID: #485133 - in reply to #485037
Another point missed is that Shelvey is not captain material. Not sure if having someone else would have made that much difference but whenever he gets the armband, it affects his game.
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