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EU Referendum
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02 June 2016 16:42 Post ID: #471282 - in reply to #471037
The UK's nett contribution to the EU is £8.5 billion a year, that's money the other EU country's would have to make up if we left so it's hardly surprising they want us to stay.
The long term goal is a federal Europe governed from Brussels with the Euro as the only currency in circulation. So the main issue for me is do you want to remain British or do you want to become European but residing in the British region of Europe. The economic arguments are a smokescreen, a United States of Europe is the real endgame!
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02 June 2016 16:49 Post ID: #471283 - in reply to #471037
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I think the option of remaining British will be taken out of our hands as both the Scots and the Welsh will vote for independence,then join the EU.
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02 June 2016 18:16 Post ID: #471284 - in reply to #471037
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The fucking government have rigged it so the country remains. i hope the people who vote to stay don't moan the fuck on when Merkel and co rip the fuck out of the UK as soon as the results are known. the only winners in all this are the rich the poor don't matter.
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02 June 2016 20:43 Post ID: #471289 - in reply to #471037
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02 June 2016 23:59 Post ID: #471290 - in reply to #471037
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I couldn't give a fuck about immigration that would get sorted, the fact is if the UK was out of the EU those german and frog bastards wouldn't be able to take the piss out of this once great country.
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03 June 2016 12:12 Post ID: #471301 - in reply to #471037
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How do you mean? What isn't great about this country anymore?
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03 June 2016 13:03 Post ID: #471307 - in reply to #471037
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08 June 2016 00:01 Post ID: #471480 - in reply to #471272
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Harry's Boy - 2/6/2016 12:07

I've rarely been so infuriated by any other political debate or felt so helpless in the face of the political and corporate machine that rules our lives.

Both sides are dominated (at least as the press has it) by Tories.

On one hand we have the 'remain' faction, led by such socially aware and dedicated 'men of the people' standing up for 'hard-working British families', Cameron amd Osborne. My arse. Just like the unelected EU and commentators such as the IMF they have a vested interest in serving their corporate masters, who, literally do not care whether the ordinary people of Europe have decent lives or not. So long as the European super-state serves to keep their economy balanced and in favour of their self-interested, arses-n-butter, lovely lifestyle.

On the other hand, we have the bare-faced personal ambition of Johnson. A man, who, if you have read his book 'The Churchill Factor', clearly believes he is the reincarnation of Churchill. His self-absorbed push to become prime minister at the expense of any attention to reason screams of One Chance for personal elevation to the office he, rather more Napolean-like, ambitiously yearns for. And his charming side-kick, the utterly vile Michael Gove. A political opportunist trying to oust Cameron after his demotion within the party. And their arguments? All economic ones are speculative. This has never been done before so who really knows? In truth, neither side. They are left with the immigration card. Yes, as an ordinary person I can see how having to compete for basic pay with 200 million fellow low paid workers across Europe is going to be a major disadvantage. So, leave and close the borders. Right. Except they're going to leave the Irish door open. And the Irish door is still open to millions of European workers. Guess what'll happen there. The self-seeking bastards on the 'Brexit' side will still be able to exploit ordinary people across Europe regardless if Britain are in or out of the EU.

And as for the voice of the people? Bloody silence. To be honest, I think the Labour Party realised the damage it did to its own support by backing senior Tories in the Scottish referendum. To their support they just looked like toadies supporting The Establishment of Cameron et al. It certainly kllled any Scottish support for Labour when it came to the General Election and confirmed to English supporters that Milliband did not have it to lead a walk in the park let alone the country.

I could go on but I'll save you that. This country is sick of politics and politicians. It needs to change. Political parties have to reshape to greater represent the populace. First past the post yields a continual flow of minority governments dominated by one faction within that party. I think in order to achieve the sort of bloody in fighting and eventual resolution that we need is for the country to leave the EU. There will follow a period of massive upheaval. Nobody knows how the multi-nationals will treat the UK after that. I'm guessing self-interest will keep global businesses determined to keep trading. However, I'm hoping for parties to break up, re-group according to clearly expressed philosophies and policies that actually allow people to make political choices which are meaningful to them.

I'll get me coat.

Good post Harry,read a Tony Benn post earlierhad a tab with him a few years ago,loved his politics,but it's a few years later now.Here's hoping the tories rip themselves apart.
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16 June 2016 23:13 Post ID: #471826 - in reply to #471037
We know how our poll has gone on here but I wonder if today's murder of the Yorkshire MP does anything to the proper one. Not that I would accuse any higher powers of trying anything to sway opinion or owt like that. *whistles...

Just for arguments sake, say there was something sinister involved in trying different methods to change minds, is money, oil or power really worth more than a human life?
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16 June 2016 23:26 Post ID: #471827 - in reply to #471037
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If it's true regarding the Britain First claim then it shows what type of bloke he is anyway. A racist thug. Nothing sinister in my eyes from the powers that be.
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16 June 2016 23:36 Post ID: #471828 - in reply to #471827
Officemonkey - 16/6/2016 23:26

If it's true regarding the Britain First claim then it shows what type of bloke he is anyway. A racist thug. Nothing sinister in my eyes from the powers that be.


Ive read loads of reports tonight and whilst the majority are adamant the bloke is a mentally ill loner and said 'Britain First' over and over again, there are the odd one or two who have said that they heard the bloke say 'why don't you put Britain first?'

I know it means little and wont bring the wife back but in theory it means a lot as it creates tension towards the wrong people as if there is an agenda. I suppose that's where any conspiracy thoughts may stem from.
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16 June 2016 23:45 Post ID: #471829 - in reply to #471037
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That Britain First lot need their hammers anyway. Just a shame it has taken this to make it happen. It's no surprise that they're all up for leaving the EU either mind. A bunch of absolute toe rags who have created a whole load of knackers who hate all Muslims and immigrants. Even if this isn't related to them the above still stands.

Her poor kids and husband must be devastated.

Edited by Officemonkey 16/6/2016 23:47
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17 June 2016 00:08 Post ID: #471830 - in reply to #471829
Officemonkey - 16/6/2016 23:45

That Britain First lot need their hammers anyway. Just a shame it has taken this to make it happen. It's no surprise that they're all up for leaving the EU either mind. A bunch of absolute toe rags who have created a whole load of knackers who hate all Muslims and immigrants. Even if this isn't related to them the above still stands.

Her poor kids and husband must be devastated.


It's difficult to put into context and there's certainly no job in the world worth more than human lives, then again we're just classed as the average Joe with nowt to contribute but an 'X' on a piece of paper now and again.

The world of politics has many dark corridors with many too complex for us to comprehend. If ive learned anything from joining this forum, it's the fact that it's made me open my eyes more to what is really going on in the world away from here and I bet this isn't as cut and dry as it seems. It's a shame to think this way, especially for the bairns and that concerned but I cant help it nowadays.
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17 June 2016 00:56 Post ID: #471831 - in reply to #471037
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She is now sadly a victim of hatred whipped up by this divisive Brexit campaign and the likes of Britain First. Both fuel xenophobic hatred through lies. Something which this young woman exposed and spoke out against countless times.

We're in for some scary times now. Once you get people going like this it's hard to then stop them going too far. Britain First are especially guilty of this. Advertising that they want street militants etc and doing fight club work shops. Now trying to distance themselves from it? They can fuck right off.
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17 June 2016 08:05 Post ID: #471833 - in reply to #471037
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Om this Britain First have said he had nothing to do with them. Just because he might or might not have said that doesn't mean he was a member. By all accounts he was a loner who had nowt to do with anyone. Its like you saying if someone killed her but shouted Allahu Akbar that all Muslims must have put him up to it. And apparently witnesses have stated they never heard him say Britain First.

Edited by billybobcat 17/6/2016 09:07
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17 June 2016 08:19 Post ID: #471834 - in reply to #471037
Just a quick little think should really tell you everything you need to know anyway.

Aside from the media being full of shite and one of the biggest reasons why the world is in a mess, if we go by what they say and take it as gospel, what they are telling us just contradicts itself anyway.

If the bloke was a loner then he wouldn't be part of any group and if he was mentally ill, could he not have just had a break down and accuse the wife of being part of something that he thought was going to ruin the country? by that I mean the campaign to stay in the EU.

Even on here with our varied intelligence levels but by the by, the term id class as the average Joe on the street, even with all our knowledge, we find it hard to work out which side of the fence to be on in regards to the in or out vote, so if you're mentally challenged, you'll be bordering on god knows what with all the scaremongering. Even this last week, some of the headlines have been shocking to say the least.
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17 June 2016 08:51 Post ID: #471835 - in reply to #471037
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Top post toony spot on. the bloke was just some nutter who has probably watched the tv and if anything the in campaign have probably scared him more than anything the out campaign could ever do. remember the in lot have claimed there could be a war with Russia and could put 70 years of peace at risk if we leave, that everyone will be over £4k out of pocket,farmers will lose £300m if we leave,then you have that utter cunt Osborne threatening huge tax rises and massive spending cuts if the country quits the EU when he knows he couldn't get that bill passed as his own party would vote against it. OH and by the way witnesses have stated that they never heard him say British First its just the media using the word "Allegedly said" to suit their agenda.

Edited by billybobcat 17/6/2016 09:05
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17 June 2016 09:11 Post ID: #471836 - in reply to #471037
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And there you have it the first fucking idiot using the death of this lady for their own agenda.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3645914/Making-political-ca...
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17 June 2016 09:25 Post ID: #471837 - in reply to #471836
billybobcat - 17/6/2016 09:11

And there you have it the first fucking idiot using the death of this lady for their own agenda.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3645914/Making-political-ca...


Oh ive seen a few on Twatter that have similar tendencies and is one of the reasons why we view the grey area of something that may just be black or white.
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17 June 2016 09:34 Post ID: #471838 - in reply to #471037
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but were they politicians toony.
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17 June 2016 09:38 Post ID: #471839 - in reply to #471833
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billybobcat - 17/6/2016 08:05

Om this Britain First have said he had nothing to do with them. Just because he might or might not have said that doesn't mean he was a member. By all accounts he was a loner who had nowt to do with anyone. Its like you saying if someone killed her but shouted Allahu Akbar that all Muslims must have put him up to it. And apparently witnesses have stated they never heard him say Britain First.


Well that's exactly what Britain First do Billy. You should check them out on Facebook and the likes. They're s vile organisation who are creating ultra right wing people. To be their supporter all you need to do is like them on their Facebook page. It doesn't mean you go to their militant gathering or 'Christian patrols'

Edited by Officemonkey 17/6/2016 09:45
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17 June 2016 09:57 Post ID: #471840 - in reply to #471037
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The death of this woman is absolutely noting to do with any Brexit campaign.

Not surprised that the usual suspect here is the first one to try and link it.

I know nothing about the killer other than that which I've read in the newspapers today, but it appears he was a loner with mental health issues.

How can anyone in the right mind try and link it with the EU debate?

Despicable, but expected.

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17 June 2016 10:01 Post ID: #471841 - in reply to #471037
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Personally ive never heard of them not that says much as i don't have owt to do with people like that, but they cant be blamed for some nutter who takes it on himself to go to the trouble of finding a gun or making one if that's what he's done and go and stab some woman who he might not agree with, then shoot her in the head. you have to be severely mentally disturbed to do that. has there been other cases of this group going out and doing what this nutter has done.

Even if people are racist how many of them are going to go out and bloody shoot and stab someone unless they are mentally disturbed.
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17 June 2016 10:16 Post ID: #471843 - in reply to #471831
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Officemonkey - 17/6/2016 00:56

She is now sadly a victim of hatred whipped up by this divisive Brexit campaign and the likes of Britain First. Both fuel xenophobic hatred through lies. Something which this young woman exposed and spoke out against countless times.



There's one right here Billy.

Predictable, but still deeply depressing.

Blaming the Brexit campaign for any part of this is ridiculous.

Dennis Skinner is for a Brexit, is it his fault?

The issues surrounding Breixt need to be debated, not for accusations of racism and all the rest of it to be chucked about.

The death of Jo Cox is absolutely nothing to do with the Brexit campaign, and no amount of twisting words to fit will make it so.
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17 June 2016 10:40 Post ID: #471844 - in reply to #471037
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Totally agree OL the bloke was just mentally ill it has nothing whatsoever to do with this referendum thing, but that labour MP has tried to link it with Brexit i hope he gets sacked.
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17 June 2016 11:27 Post ID: #471845 - in reply to #471037
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Oh here he comes on his personal tirade again. All because I disagreed with him on something.

Seems to be an ongoing thing on this board though. Someone disagrees with him and it all goes downhill and nasty very quickly. It surely has to be a mental health issue.

Funny how the quote provided removed the clear indications that I thought Britain First are the real monsters here with their actions and trying to recruit street militants.

Clearly that doesn't fit this new agenda against me though. Haha. And he had the cheek to say I couldn't comprehend things.

Edited by Officemonkey 17/6/2016 11:36
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17 June 2016 11:57 Post ID: #471851 - in reply to #471037
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The death of Jo Cox has everything to do with educated and privileged people like Farage and Gove.
They relentlessly manipulate the masses who have endured years of their austerity con into believing it's all down to immigration.

In a population of millions it only takes a tiny minority of extremists to be convinced by the claptrap before murder is committed.

It's so fucking sad listening to the brainwashed repeating the language of the right.

Anyone who uses or has used the following rhetoric should ask themselves where they got it from,was it there own brain cells ?

Please take the test.

Close our borders,unelected bureaucrats in brussels,they want to destroy our way of life,pc gone mad,hate preachers,radicalised muslims,british values.

The leave campaign is almost totally driven by the false immigration argument,which in turn is mainly driven by the right wing arseholes who wish to control us.





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17 June 2016 12:00 Post ID: #471852 - in reply to #471037
This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported. Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.
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17 June 2016 12:16 Post ID: #471854 - in reply to #471852
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keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:00

This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported. Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.


And of course it would be wrong to do so. But you can't argue that the Brexit campaign has been a divisive one and is strongly supported by Britain First. These fuckers have been geeing people up to cause mayhem for years now.

Now whether this case is related or not is a matter for the police et al. But Britain First cant deny they've created people like this and once they're set free with these far right ideologies it's hard to contain them again.

I'd provide some links but apparently they're frowned upon these days. Any research of Britain First will show you what they're really like and what type of people they're trying to manipulate.
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17 June 2016 12:20 Post ID: #471855 - in reply to #471852
keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:00

This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported. Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.


Whilst I agree with what you're saying Keggy, the fact that you allude to others who may use it to their 'advantage' just proves how easy it is to contradict ourselves innocently.
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17 June 2016 12:23 Post ID: #471856 - in reply to #471854
Don't attempt to tell me what I can and can't argue . How can you agree with my point then within a sentence straight away go on about Brexit and say Britain First have created people like this ? You're doing exactly what I have spoken out against. You now are using this woman's death to further your own political agenda. I'll have no part in that .

Edited by keggy_keagal 17/6/2016 12:25
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17 June 2016 12:24 Post ID: #471857 - in reply to #471855
Sorry Toony I don't see where I've contradicted myself.

Edited by keggy_keagal 17/6/2016 12:26
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17 June 2016 12:43 Post ID: #471858 - in reply to #471037
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I know its a bit harsh with this lass loosing her life but the remain contingent wont be able to buy a better sympathy vote will they, i mean anyone who was sitting on the fence will be force fed images of this poor womans kids and the line 'vote remain dont lets these kids mother die in vain' I bet that serpent faced cunt osbourne is creaming his knickers at the oppotunity to cash in on this sad sad news.
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17 June 2016 12:48 Post ID: #471859 - in reply to #471857

keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:24

Sorry Toony I don't see where I've contradicted myself.


As I said, im looking at it as an innocent mention but knowing me, i'll just have read it wrong.

You basically said this: This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported.

Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.

The bit in red being the innocent contradictory bit.

 

As I said, I was just saying how easy things can be twisted and that's just for us, the average Joe's.   It's just how ive read it and it's not in any way a dig or being funny Keggy.  Just a reference.

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17 June 2016 12:58 Post ID: #471860 - in reply to #471859
Toon_NoMatterWot - 17/6/2016 12:48

keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:24

Sorry Toony I don't see where I've contradicted myself.


As I said, im looking at it as an innocent mention but knowing me, i'll just have read it wrong.

You basically said this: This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported.

Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.

The bit in red being the innocent contradictory bit.

 

As I said, I was just saying how easy things can be twisted and that's just for us, the average Joe's.   It's just how ive read it and it's not in any way a dig or being funny Keggy.  Just a reference.




Nope, I'm either being dim (which is entirely possible, so please explain it again, only like I'm four) and certainly no offence taken or you're thinking on a level way different to mine (which I'm now speculating may well tie into your conspiracy theory line of thought of earlier).


Edited by keggy_keagal 17/6/2016 12:59
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17 June 2016 13:37 Post ID: #471861 - in reply to #471860
keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:58

Toon_NoMatterWot - 17/6/2016 12:48

keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:24

Sorry Toony I don't see where I've contradicted myself.


As I said, im looking at it as an innocent mention but knowing me, i'll just have read it wrong.

You basically said this: This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported.

Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.

The bit in red being the innocent contradictory bit.

 

As I said, I was just saying how easy things can be twisted and that's just for us, the average Joe's.   It's just how ive read it and it's not in any way a dig or being funny Keggy.  Just a reference.




Nope, I'm either being dim (which is entirely possible, so please explain it again, only like I'm four) and certainly no offence taken or you're thinking on a level way different to mine (which I'm now speculating may well tie into your conspiracy theory line of thought of earlier).




Now im confusing myself whilst making me dinner....

I can see your point and I can also see what I mean but it's not worth going over too much as you said I was way off the mark, although just this once I will....



In a nutshell. You said it was wrong to say or imply the MP being killed was politicly motivated. We're all agreed on this bit but the other bit in which you stated the other people was the bit im referring to.

I saw it as you basically pointing out that others would wrongly use it to their advantage and I saw that as a politically motivated agenda.

I know by viewing your full post that I can also read it the way in which you disagree and find an issue with my point as well, that's why I originally said innocent.

Regardless, it just goes to show that things between us mere normal can be seen in various ways and maybe that's the marvel that the media sees from time to time as it's easy to put out there.

I know I originally brought the point up yesterday that im suspicious about everything nowadays and that it wouldn't surprise me if the murder was political but something I am certain of is the media's role in everything especially the scaremongering. That includes all papers and the government's own TV channel. The BBC.
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17 June 2016 13:55 Post ID: #471862 - in reply to #471861
Toon_NoMatterWot - 17/6/2016 13:37

keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:58

Toon_NoMatterWot - 17/6/2016 12:48

keggy_keagal - 17/6/2016 12:24

Sorry Toony I don't see where I've contradicted myself.


As I said, im looking at it as an innocent mention but knowing me, i'll just have read it wrong.

You basically said this: This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported.

Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage.

The bit in red being the innocent contradictory bit.

 

As I said, I was just saying how easy things can be twisted and that's just for us, the average Joe's.   It's just how ive read it and it's not in any way a dig or being funny Keggy.  Just a reference.




Nope, I'm either being dim (which is entirely possible, so please explain it again, only like I'm four) and certainly no offence taken or you're thinking on a level way different to mine (which I'm now speculating may well tie into your conspiracy theory line of thought of earlier).




Now im confusing myself whilst making me dinner....

I can see your point and I can also see what I mean but it's not worth going over too much as you said I was way off the mark, although just this once I will....



In a nutshell. You said it was wrong to say or imply the MP being killed was politicly motivated. We're all agreed on this bit but the other bit in which you stated the other people was the bit im referring to.

I saw it as you basically pointing out that others would wrongly use it to their advantage and I saw that as a politically motivated agenda.

I know by viewing your full post that I can also read it the way in which you disagree and find an issue with my point as well, that's why I originally said innocent.

Regardless, it just goes to show that things between us mere normal can be seen in various ways and maybe that's the marvel that the media sees from time to time as it's easy to put out there.

I know I originally brought the point up yesterday that im suspicious about everything nowadays and that it wouldn't surprise me if the murder was political but something I am certain of is the media's role in everything especially the scaremongering. That includes all papers and the government's own TV channel. The BBC.


Nope I'm lost man.

On the other point of the media being used as a tool to manipulate the masses it was always the way. I'm with George Carlin :

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17 June 2016 14:13 Post ID: #471863 - in reply to #471862
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"It's called the american dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."


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17 June 2016 16:48 Post ID: #471865 - in reply to #471037
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Great video in my opinion regarding this travesty.

https://www.facebook.com/LBC/videos/10154053359791558/
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17 June 2016 17:09 Post ID: #471869 - in reply to #471037
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Load of fucking shite the bloke was a fucking nutter end of story.If it were true every politician would have a bodyguard but they don't.
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