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18 June 2016 22:34 Post ID: #471945 - in reply to #471037
Another point. Before the murder, the leave vote was way ahead, now all the polls have seen a massive surge in stay opinions and it's neck and neck.
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18 June 2016 22:55 Post ID: #471946 - in reply to #471944
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Toon_NoMatterWot - 18/6/2016 22:29

I know we said that it's wrong to link the murder of the MP with the referendum but this is day 3 of it being all over the news and time is running out for the campaigns to sway the vote.

I wont apologise for questioning why we're being force fed the sad stories.


I admit the minute I heard that an MP had been attacked and was critically injured I was immediately suspicious.

What happened to David Kelly, the farce with the Mccanns not to mention Tony Bliar are bound to turn some of us into cynics.

The fact that Mair is alive and in custody makes a conspiracy unlikely.

What happened is a bit more than sad story though toony.


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18 June 2016 23:15 Post ID: #471947 - in reply to #471946
PieMag - 18/6/2016 22:55

Toon_NoMatterWot - 18/6/2016 22:29

I know we said that it's wrong to link the murder of the MP with the referendum but this is day 3 of it being all over the news and time is running out for the campaigns to sway the vote.

I wont apologise for questioning why we're being force fed the sad stories.


I admit the minute I heard that an MP had been attacked and was critically injured I was immediately suspicious.

What happened to David Kelly, the farce with the Mccanns not to mention Tony Bliar are bound to turn some of us into cynics.

The fact that Mair is alive and in custody makes a conspiracy unlikely.

What happened is a bit more than sad story though toony.




I wont deny it's sad and especially for a parent with young kids but in my eyes, there's no way this is as clear cut as is being made out.

Stretching this out a bit, was it in the public interest to actually report the story and if so why?

What I mean here is that the media or whoever picks and chooses which stories they want the public to know and regardless of the reasons behind this murder, it's been decided for some reason, and we can speculate which ones, to let us know.

Why then wasn't it in the public interest to hear that the government are being investigated over fiddling expenses and vote rigging?

Something always stinks in my mind now. I cant help it.
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19 June 2016 00:15 Post ID: #471950 - in reply to #471942
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billybobcat - 18/6/2016 22:04

Well if we remain you wont be moaning on i take it OM if the EU stiff the UK.


How will they stiff us? We have the power of veto just like all of the other nations. If they join its because our elected leader allows it. Bearing in mind, they'll never reach the stipulations required even to get that far.

But just for clarity, I don't think the EU is perfect.
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19 June 2016 02:24 Post ID: #471951 - in reply to #471037
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If your a simple working man in or out wont make the slightest difference to you, mortgages wont rise and osbastard wont claw £30bil off us, if your a millionaire business mogal with thousand of EU migrants working for you then yes you will be right to be worried also the end of the peoples charter will signal an end to every fucker and their granny claiming DLA for a naughty kid whos got adhd or asbergers syndrome or some lazy cunt who twisted an ankle in 1981.

Personally i want to stay in for the simple reason i want us to have a say in europe and not leave the security of the continent to the french and germans.
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19 June 2016 10:56 Post ID: #471953 - in reply to #471951
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claud_ballz - 19/6/2016 02:24

If your a simple working man in or out wont make the slightest difference to you, mortgages wont rise and osbastard wont claw £30bil off us, if your a millionaire business mogal with thousand of EU migrants working for you then yes you will be right to be worried also the end of the peoples charter will signal an end to every fucker and their granny claiming DLA for a naughty kid whos got adhd or asbergers syndrome or some lazy cunt who twisted an ankle in 1981.

Personally i want to stay in for the simple reason i want us to have a say in europe and not leave the security of the continent to the french and germans.
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19 June 2016 11:44 Post ID: #471955 - in reply to #471037
This is just one point out of many I could make about leaving but aside from shutting the channel tunnel and saving ourselves from the many issues it has caused, surely making it a further obstacle to get into Europe will mean more of our own cash staying in the country.

Holiday places, for example, may get the boost they need as some may not want the hassle of a different way of travelling but then again, the likes of Thailand, Australia and America aren't in Europe and these are among the favourite destinations for holidays. There's been no issue there.
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19 June 2016 13:02 Post ID: #471956 - in reply to #471037
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19 June 2016 16:01 Post ID: #471957 - in reply to #471956
Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 13:02

Interesting...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/13/brexit-support...


What is interesting is that we're in the EU as it stands and we're all angry with one thing or another. One being the utter shambles or propaganda and fingers in everyone elses pie by the Government.

Leaving may not solve nowt but a change from the norm may see some decent change ahead and the chance of rebuilding the country.

We're a country that is trying to be a whole continent of various cultures for whatever reason but rather than just being part of the bigger group. We need to leave to get our individuality back.
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19 June 2016 16:38 Post ID: #471958 - in reply to #471037
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Bollocks, this country has been built on multiculturalism.
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19 June 2016 16:42 Post ID: #471959 - in reply to #471037
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Great video from a very well educated man. Unbiased and in the know. It's 20 mins long but well worth it.

https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/12933619740245...
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19 June 2016 17:46 Post ID: #471961 - in reply to #471037
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You are a total pain OM
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19 June 2016 17:48 Post ID: #471962 - in reply to #471959
Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 16:42

Great video from a very well educated man. Unbiased and in the know. It's 20 mins long but well worth it.

https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/12933619740245...

As Ive said before, it's all well and good us all having our opinions of which way we want to vote but the top, middle and bottom of it is the current against the unknown.

As things stand, many people will hate 21st century Britain due to the daily issues that they have to deal with, some caused by government policies, some by the media, propaganda and others by something else. These people will be those wanting to take a chance on exiting as facing the unknown seems far healthier than more of the same by staying.

Those that want to stay, will vote to do so because they haven't been affected by government cuts, may have been influenced by an angle from the media or social networking or have such a comfortable life that they dont want change.

For me, even though my mind changes with the wind just think the best option would be to overthrow the politics anyway. It's something just there to allow the rich to become richer and be above the law at the expense of the every day person. The fact that the rug is moved in front of peoples eyes too regularly is no coincidence.
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19 June 2016 17:52 Post ID: #471963 - in reply to #471037
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"Those that want to stay, will vote to do so because they haven't been affected by government cuts"

That's about the size of it mate.
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19 June 2016 17:53 Post ID: #471964 - in reply to #471958
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Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 16:38

Bollocks, this country has been built on multiculturalism.


Such a statement is hard to comment on but I'll give it a go .... Ok here goes.... Absolute fucking rubbish. I think I've covered it. Let's check... Absolute fucking rubbish. Yep. Nailed it
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19 June 2016 18:00 Post ID: #471965 - in reply to #471964
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Finn_the_Dog - 19/6/2016 17:53

Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 16:38

Bollocks, this country has been built on multiculturalism.


Such a statement is hard to comment on but I'll give it a go .... Ok here goes.... Absolute fucking rubbish. I think I've covered it. Let's check... Absolute fucking rubbish. Yep. Nailed it


Watch the video. I suspect you won't though as it goes as the Brexit narrative of facts and reason.
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19 June 2016 18:01 Post ID: #471966 - in reply to #471961
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Finn_the_Dog - 19/6/2016 17:46

You are a total pain OM


You could always just not reply. Reign yourself a little and don't reply :)

But do try and watch the video by Prof Michael Dougan.

Just for good measure, here's the video again as I've noticed you've been cherry picking my posts and conviently ignoring others or parts within them... https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/12933619740245...

Edited by Officemonkey 19/6/2016 18:05
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19 June 2016 18:04 Post ID: #471967 - in reply to #471037
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Have you watched the video, TNMW? Your reply suggests you haven't. It comes across as if you're blaming the EU for Tory austerity measures. That's no reason to leave. The professor in the video explains the situation on both sides of the fence and comes to a logical conclusion.
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19 June 2016 18:12 Post ID: #471969 - in reply to #471967
Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 18:04

Have you watched the video, TNMW? Your reply suggests you haven't. It comes across as if you're blaming the EU for Tory austerity measures. That's no reason to leave. The professor in the video explains the situation on both sides of the fence and comes to a logical conclusion.


I admit I haven't watched it OM. I prefer making my judgements on what ive witnessed with my own eyes and how society is being played out around me.

Even if a video was shown and it was full of lasses with nowt on talking about conclusions, it still wouldn't alter my thought although I may watch it.
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19 June 2016 18:15 Post ID: #471970 - in reply to #471037
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And there's half the battle. People aren't willing to listen to experts. They're quite happy making their own assumptions whilst putting their fingers in their ears and humming. That's a scary prospect especially when you've just said you wouldn't even care.

Of course if you look at what the experts are saying and you disagree well that's all well and good. The video is a balanced and pragmatic look at the situation.

If the leave campaign was about how Britain could contribute more to the world if it left the EU, I'd be slightly more interested. However, it's not. It's all about how we can give less and take more whilst trying to keep the rest of the world out. We're better than that. It's almost like a small minded mentality and loaded with this little England arrogance.

Edited by Officemonkey 19/6/2016 18:19
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19 June 2016 18:21 Post ID: #471971 - in reply to #471970
Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 18:15

And there's half the battle. People aren't willing to listen to experts. They're quite happy making their own assumptions. That's a scary prospect.

Of course if you look at what the experts are saying and you disagree well that's all well and good. The video is a balanced and pragmatic look at the situation.

If the leave campaign was about how Britain could contribute more to the world if it left the EU, I'd be slightly more interested. However, it's not. It's all about how we can give less and take more whilst trying to keep the rest of the world out. We're better than that. It's almost like a small minded mentality and loaded with this little England arrogance.


Personally speaking, I dont need to listen to anyone and have my own view of 21st century Britain as experience. The fact that there's been far too many videos and TV programmes to start with that paint a false picture of real life anyway, one more wont make a difference.

All I have to work out now is which way is best to vote to see if change can come around at some point in the future but im not holding my breath as to there being a right choice here.
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19 June 2016 18:25 Post ID: #471972 - in reply to #471037
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It's a university lecture that has been recorded. Give it a whirl. He even says how both campaigns have been dreadful. Honestly, I implore you to watch it. He corrects a lot of wrongs and myths on both sides.

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19 June 2016 18:26 Post ID: #471973 - in reply to #471970
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but what are these so called experts getting out of this there is obviously something they are getting, they don't do it for fuck all. maybe if we did leave these so called experts would be out of a job.

Have you personally been affected by the governments cuts OM if you haven't you cant comment on why people are wanting out. the EU control the UK government and they do control the government and they control all the other countries governments.

I don't give a shit what anybody says if Cameron was in control of the UK he would be able to dictate to the EU but he cant as has been proved because they think he is a fucking mug and they treat the UK as the mugs we are.
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19 June 2016 18:27 Post ID: #471974 - in reply to #471037
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What have government cuts got to do with the EU?

Watch the video. It explains a lot on both sides and also shows that your entire post (with all due respect) is incorrect.



Edited by Officemonkey 19/6/2016 18:29
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19 June 2016 18:38 Post ID: #471975 - in reply to #471974
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Ive just told you the EU tell every government what they can and cant do. Just because those so called experts you keep linking to tell you what you want to hear doesn't make it true.

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19 June 2016 18:39 Post ID: #471976 - in reply to #471974
Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 18:27

What have government cuts got to do with the EU?

Watch the video. It explains a lot on both sides and also shows that your entire post (with all due respect) is incorrect.



Maybe it has everything to do with it because if people really believe they are linked then maybe the government wants us to think that way as they may really want out as well.

Now im confusing myself..... Maybe i'll have a lie down for a week.
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19 June 2016 18:45 Post ID: #471977 - in reply to #471976
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It doesn't matter really if we vote to stay because the EU if crumbling and once one country decides to leave they will all want to leave.
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19 June 2016 18:46 Post ID: #471978 - in reply to #471975
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billybobcat - 19/6/2016 18:38

Ive just told you the EU tell every government what they can and cant do. Just because those so called experts you keep linking to tell you what you want to hear doesn't make it true.



If you read my post(s) again you'll see I say he puts across a balanced and pragmatic view and argument for both sides. He taught me a thing or two too. He's an expert in all things EU.

He stands to gain nothing from this but we truly are fucked as a nation if we aren't willing to engage with people who have significantly more knowledge about a subject than we do.
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19 June 2016 18:50 Post ID: #471979 - in reply to #471037
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Here's a YouTube link for those without Facebook... https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=USTypBKEd8Y

And here's his biography for those who think his opinion is worthless... https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/law/staff/michael-dougan/
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19 June 2016 18:56 Post ID: #471980 - in reply to #471037
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One bloke commented who is a leaver and said this...

"I have to say as a pro leave supporter nothing has come closer to me changing my mind than this man's talk. This impartial, fact driven information is what can change votes, more than any world leader, any politician, any economist and any celebrity. People like this should be on the campaign trail, who actually know what they're talking about. Voters are crying out for factual information to make their decision and the spoon fed crap we are told by politicians is unreliable at best. I'm sticking with leave but this man has certainly made me question that decision."

Now that, is someone who is willing to listen to all sides.
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19 June 2016 19:29 Post ID: #471981 - in reply to #471966
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Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 18:01

Finn_the_Dog - 19/6/2016 17:46

You are a total pain OM


You could always just not reply. Reign yourself a little and don't reply :)

But do try and watch the video by Prof Michael Dougan.

Just for good measure, here's the video again as I've noticed you've been cherry picking my posts and conviently ignoring others or parts within them... https://www.facebook.com/UniversityofLiverpool/videos/12933619740245...

Truly pathetic- you've lost it. Carry on blatantly plagiarising (sorry "referencing" as you bizarrely put it) uber-left ideals; peddling mis-truths and warped opinions (what a 180o btw from you in recent years).

Country built on multiculturalism - I'm still laughing! You're dangerous.
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19 June 2016 19:38 Post ID: #471982 - in reply to #471037
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By asking you to watch a video? You've either become pig-headed or senile mate.

Watch the video, it's all I ask. Even question his points if needs be.

I'm also far from über left and dangerous are people who refuse to take on all sides. Yep, definitely pig headed and stubborn. Keep your fingers in your ears whilst whilstling.

I'd love to know where this new bout of accusations regarding plagiarism are coming from too. People say they don't want links so you post the content of the article. People don't want articles so you find quotes. Baffling. Catch 22.

Edited by Officemonkey 19/6/2016 19:42
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19 June 2016 19:49 Post ID: #471983 - in reply to #471975
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billybobcat - 19/6/2016 18:38

Ive just told you the EU tell every government what they can and cant do. Just because those so called experts you keep linking to tell you what you want to hear doesn't make it true.



The Facebook link om posted was not from a so called expert billy but a professor who actually teaches 1st and 2nd year law undergraduate students.

He clearly states that pretty much everything he says in the video is taught to his students and is entirely evidence based.

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19 June 2016 19:58 Post ID: #471984 - in reply to #471037
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Links are one thing but you have blatantly copied and pasted info without "referencing", as you put it, or, as I put it, plagiarised and peddled it as your own- that's where I get it from. One example earlier on the other thread was when you copied word for word from the Facebook page of someone with a vested interest in cheap labour from the EU ie the owner of a firm that supplies sous-chefs. I pulled you up on it and you avoided it.

You don't need to rein me in - just fed up of seeing your utter shite on here re the EU when I come on to see what the latest football views are and there you are - up your own arse - peddling crap.

Honestly - reaching the point that I can be bothered with you. If you were chocolate you'd eat yourself.
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19 June 2016 20:35 Post ID: #471985 - in reply to #471037
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Still haven't watched though have you. Too embroiled in trying to discredit articles and links, claiming them to be plagiarised. If you don't want links, they get copied and pasted, if you don't want links you want complete essays on my personal thoughts. I've posted my thoughts numerous times and backed them up. The same can't be said...
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19 June 2016 20:39 Post ID: #471986 - in reply to #471037
Not Bob Johnson.
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I am voting out for the simple reason i dont like feckin uneducated ethnics living here.the ones that try to sell me the big issue,wash my car or dress up as a ninja turtle advertising dominoe pizza half price.
get the feck back to your own shithole.
couldn't give a feck about the finance issues as we have no control over them whatsoever.
Got nothing against controlled imigration but open door is suicide.
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19 June 2016 21:04 Post ID: #471987 - in reply to #471985
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Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 20:35

Still haven't watched though have you. Too embroiled in trying to discredit articles and links, claiming them to be plagiarised. If you don't want links, they get copied and pasted, if you don't want links you want complete essays on my personal thoughts. I've posted my thoughts numerous times and backed them up. The same can't be said...



Show me one post where I haven't written my own thoughts - go on - one post. Next time you paste an extract from a sous-chef boss' Facebook page- put his name on the bottom. It's called referencing. Dickhead
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19 June 2016 21:04 Post ID: #471988 - in reply to #471037
Not Bob Johnson.
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Watched the link OM, interesting but not convincing.would like to see more such stuff from both sides pre Thursday.
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19 June 2016 21:10 Post ID: #471989 - in reply to #471987
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Finn_the_Dog - 19/6/2016 21:04

Officemonkey - 19/6/2016 20:35

Still haven't watched though have you. Too embroiled in trying to discredit articles and links, claiming them to be plagiarised. If you don't want links, they get copied and pasted, if you don't want links you want complete essays on my personal thoughts. I've posted my thoughts numerous times and backed them up. The same can't be said...



Show me one post where I haven't written my own thoughts - go on - one post. Next time you paste an extract from a sous-chef boss' Facebook page- put his name on the bottom. It's called referencing. Dickhead


Haha, taken the route of your mate I see.

You've posted your thoughts but nothing to back it up. Watched the video?
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19 June 2016 21:15 Post ID: #471990 - in reply to #471988
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BlackBob - 19/6/2016 21:04

Watched the link OM, interesting but not convincing.would like to see more such stuff from both sides pre Thursday.


At least you've given it a go. He's a reputable bloke and what he says certainly makes you question things a bit more.

It's a shame the rest of the campaign hasn't been as well informed on both sides. It's all been focused too much on name calling etc. A bit like the last few threads involving me have resorted to. The essence of the message goes out of the window with people trying to personally point score instead of looking at the issues raised.
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