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EU Referendum
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17 June 2016 17:23 Post ID: #471870 - in reply to #471037
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The only thing which is a travesty is the death of the woman and the suffering her family and friends will be going through. How anyone can link this to the referendum in any way is alarming.
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17 June 2016 19:51 Post ID: #471880 - in reply to #471037
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I think if you listen to again it clearly explains that people like Britain First and the Brexit campaign have whipped people up into this frenzy. Irrespective of whether this situation is linked or not the bloke is right in what he is saying. They're paying a dangerous game with people's emotions. Thus we're turning into a xenophobic little island.
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17 June 2016 20:30 Post ID: #471886 - in reply to #471037
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so do you not think the government are not playing a more dangerous game by claiming that if we leave we could end up in a war with Russia/every person in the UK will be over £4k worse off, the farming industry will be worse off by £300m when they wont because farmers have already said so, Osborne threatening huge tax rises and massive spending cuts if the country quits the EU when he knows fine well that will never happen because his own party will vote against it. Are you saying that scaremongering wont have the exact same effect on the people of the UK.

How many murders have been caused by racists in the last year why hasn't the likes of this Britain First/NF and any other racist organisation been in the media for murders their members have caused. Just because those people might be racists doesn't mean they all go out and fucking murder asians/blacks and any foreigner they come into contact with.

Keggy said it in one of his posts

"This was a murder of a woman who happened to be a politician . To say or imply there was a political motivation at this stage is plainly wrong regardless of what's been reported. Just as wrong as the various MPs (Neil Coyle for example), news sources and members of both leave and remain camps who will now attempt to use Jo Cox's death to further their own arguments or gain political mileage"

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17 June 2016 20:51 Post ID: #471888 - in reply to #471037
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Well firstly regarding the lying government. These are the fuckers who we'll be left with if we leave also. I don't agree with their tactics in recent days, no.

As for Britain First, they've been done for assault, vandalism, inciting racial hatred and harassment amongst other things. The leader is still on bail.

If you look on their site they're trying to organise a militia and openly invite people to join their fight clubs.
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17 June 2016 20:52 Post ID: #471889 - in reply to #471037
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I also agree with what Keggy says too but I've tried to put across that even if it is, these groups like Brexit and Britain First are inciting people regardless whether this situation was linked.

Guess we'll have to wait and see but both groups have built their campaigns on lies and xenophobia.
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17 June 2016 20:57 Post ID: #471891 - in reply to #471880
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Officemonkey - 17/6/2016 19:51

I think if you listen to again it clearly explains that people like Britain First and the Brexit campaign have whipped people up into this frenzy. Irrespective of whether this situation is linked or not the bloke is right in what he is saying. They're paying a dangerous game with people's emotions. Thus we're turning into a xenophobic little island.


From desperation to pathetic. Well done OM - a new low.

I really cannot believe anyone would try and link this terrible event with a 6 degrees of separation style argument to support your point of view. It's got nowt to do with brexit. It's about a sick lone nutter, a total loser, murdering an MP, a wife and a mother to 2 young children. Her family must be devastated. Show some class and dignity for their sake if not your own rather than seek profit from some obscure and tenuous point to support your political view.
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17 June 2016 20:58 Post ID: #471892 - in reply to #471037
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The hysteria and self serving from both sides is both pathetic and repulsive.

The facts to what has happened have not been established.
The spin, manipulation and general fuckwittery by supposedly intelligent people is a unnerving snap shot of our society.
In the long term heaven help us.

As far as this tragic murder is concerned I will reserve judgement to the motivation.

Lessons should be learned from Bosnia and the like.


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17 June 2016 21:06 Post ID: #471893 - in reply to #471037
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Om the likes of Cameron/Osborne will be first out the door if we leave, i think they are gone even if we stay because their campaign has been nothing but a fucking disgrace.

Put it this way if it were one of Osborne/Cameron/Gove/Ian Duncan Smith that had been killed by some nutter i bet there wouldn't be much grieving in the country, because they are all cunts unlike that poor woman who got murdered. she was a normal person she wasn't a multimillionaire like Cameron/Osborne are.

Even though she was on the side of remaining in the EU i have more respect for her than any of those ive mentioned because she did her job because she genuinely wanted to help people where Cameron/Osborne and the like are out for what they can get for themselves once their political careers are over.

Do you honestly think those cunts give a fuck about you or your family even though you will be voting to stay in the EU do they fuck the same with the likes of Gove/Ian Duncan Smith they don't give a fuck about the people who will be voting to leave, we are all just common scum to those posh rich bastards.
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17 June 2016 21:18 Post ID: #471894 - in reply to #471037
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I'd like to see the two arse holes gone too but I suspect we'll then get Boris. Frying pan and fire come to mind.

Finn, if you watch that video and think the Brexit campaign and the likes of Britain First aren't trying to incite people then you've got your fingers in your ears. I've also quite clearly explained there may be no link at all but the modus operandi of the two campaigns I've mentioned are still the same.

Edited by Officemonkey 17/6/2016 21:19
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17 June 2016 21:44 Post ID: #471899 - in reply to #471037
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There is no link as you put it and you are seeking political profit -predictably I may add - out of it. I hadn't even heard of Britain first before all this. He's a fucking nut. Just like the scum that killed Lee Rigby - nowt to do with Islam- just fucking nut jobs. Sadly the worlds full of them

Edited by Finn_the_Dog 17/6/2016 21:46
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17 June 2016 21:48 Post ID: #471901 - in reply to #471037
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There is no mo - recognising immigration is important and welcome and simply wanting to control it is a valid argument. Nowt to do with loons.
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17 June 2016 21:50 Post ID: #471902 - in reply to #471037
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well said finn.
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17 June 2016 21:55 Post ID: #471903 - in reply to #471037
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I'll second that. A growing economy requires immigration but we should be able to choose who we accept as immigrants. It's just common sense surely.
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17 June 2016 22:11 Post ID: #471904 - in reply to #471037
A lot of stuff we've mentioned is just opinions and I doubt we'll agree much anyway but going off the facts of 2016 Britain now, there's been massive change whether we agree to say it's an issue or not.

The older im getting, the more suspicious (and repetitive by stating it) ive gotten, in fact so much that it's as if it's been a big plan to get me there over many years.

Each and every major issue, I feel, has been planned well in advance with some hidden intention there that we haven't as yet worked out the motive. We say money, power or oil but it may be something greater than that.

Immigration has been said to benefit countries and it's also human nature to want to help people from wherever they may come from in life when they're in need but the numbers of Middle Easterners has increased ten-fold around here and even more elsewhere. The ones ive seen dont look like the frightened sort that have fled wars and god knows where they get their cash as they're the ones in the shops with the fullest trolleys. The ones with the least manners and persona that doesn't befit someone that is scarred by war as their confidence is bordering on arrogance or cheek.

Even then, for us as a country that is supposedly crippled by the sick, disabled and benefit claimants enough to cut billions off the budget, where is the cash coming from to entice the asylum seekers over here and more importantly, who or what has made this decision? and at what benefit to us?

If it's the EU deciding then that's a good enough reason to want out. It's nothing to do with racism or any other ism there may be, but the simple fact that the government is indirectly or directly making some people make decisions that at one point would have been against the normal mind set and this may have been a factor in the murder yesterday.

With services being cut all over the place and mental health being one of the hardest hit, it will beg the question.

The other factor is that if the war in Syria is having a domino effect around Europe and creating various tangents of problems on it's way then surely the right answer is to create peace back there.

Frankie asked the question about war and asked what it was good for. The answer was nothing. I reckon in the eyes of the politicians, they see it as good for many things including issues that we think have no link whatsoever.
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17 June 2016 22:39 Post ID: #471905 - in reply to #471869
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billybobcat - 17/6/2016 17:09

Load of fucking shite the bloke was a fucking nutter end of story.If it were true every politician would have a bodyguard but they don't.


Would you say the same about the murderers of Lee Rigby BB?

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18 June 2016 00:12 Post ID: #471906 - in reply to #471037
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A good politician got murdered yesterday on our streets.
Let's not make political points,that would be easy.
Just wish the bloke who did it would've turned the anger on himself & done the decent thing & shot himself.
But he was looking for infamy,they're coming out of the woodwork.
In Orlando,Paris,Syria.
Predominantly blokes with mental health issues.
I cried earlier but then took my Grandbairns for a walk in the woods & told em to look for the fox cubs nearby.
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18 June 2016 08:59 Post ID: #471907 - in reply to #471905
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PieMag - 17/6/2016 22:39

billybobcat - 17/6/2016 17:09

Load of fucking shite the bloke was a fucking nutter end of story.If it were true every politician would have a bodyguard but they don't.


Would you say the same about the murderers of Lee Rigby BB?



Piemag they were also nutters who else in their right mind would go and cut someone's head off unless they were mad in the head.
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18 June 2016 11:11 Post ID: #471908 - in reply to #471907
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I agree BB,and as far as I can recall they were both labelled as Islamic extremists by the media and very few objected to that.

Nutters or not they were motivated by extremist views.

Shouting “Britain first” or “Put Britain first” as you attack a defenseless person with a gun and a knife sounds extreme to me.

Whatever mechanism implanted such an extreme idea into this particular nutters head should to be openly debated in any society that considers itself civilized.

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18 June 2016 11:35 Post ID: #471909 - in reply to #471037
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But not when its to gain some sort of point scoring by politicians especially when the referendum is on Thursday mate. if this bloke was a racist why attack a white woman, wasn't there an Asian woman with this poor MP when she was being attacked, i might be wrong but if its true surely if he was a Racist why not target her when he had the chance. are there no Asian MP's in that area he would have sooner gone for rather than that Jo Cox if he was as Racist as people say.

As Finn says the man was just a nutter and those nutters who killed Lee Rigby were they told to do what they did by Islam i very much doubt it they are just whack jobs.
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18 June 2016 11:38 Post ID: #471910 - in reply to #471908
PieMag - 18/6/2016 11:11

I agree BB,and as far as I can recall they were both labelled as Islamic extremists by the media and very few objected to that.

Nutters or not they were motivated by extremist views.

Shouting “Britain first” or “Put Britain first” as you attack a defenseless person with a gun and a knife sounds extreme to me.

Whatever mechanism implanted such an extreme idea into this particular nutters head should to be openly debated in any society that considers itself civilized.



We can blame media and the internet for this bit.

Drugs, drink, wars and guns have killed many people but I bet the media has indirectly or directly bumped off many more.
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18 June 2016 12:15 Post ID: #471911 - in reply to #471909
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Has it been established if the killer was a member of any far right group bb ?
If yes then he is undoubtedly racist,if not the media or politicians should have no right to make those claims and the law should be changed to ensure this cannot happen in the UK.

That aside my argument isn't centered around racism but more about why far right politicians like Farage and Gove are allowed to spout xenophobic bollox,and whether their rants had any significant influence in the death of Jo Cox.

If as tnmw states the media is responsible it's worth a debate right ?

Otherwise we can just casually dismiss every atrocity committed as mental health related while allowing people in power to use the press as a tool to spread hatred.

Would you be happy if Abu Hamza was given a weekly column in the Daily Mail ?
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18 June 2016 12:18 Post ID: #471912 - in reply to #471037
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Put your tin helmet on, PieMag. That's what I've been alluding to and look at the replies I've had.
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18 June 2016 12:37 Post ID: #471913 - in reply to #471037
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Aye i've noticed OM.

Nigel and co must be proud of their work so far.
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18 June 2016 12:47 Post ID: #471914 - in reply to #471037
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It's not the alluding to it that's the issue. Of course we should discuss it. It's the attempt made by those in both camps to draw some political capital from the events surrounding the death of Jo Cox.

In the bigger picture I see the difficulty, and the hypocrisy inherent in describing a lone white man as "mentally disturbed" whilst describing a brown skinned muslim a terrorist. There's an opportunity for a discussion round that. Using the actions of one man, politically motivated, mentally disturbed... to decry a perfectly legitimate Brexit campaign smacks of political opportunism. That goes for both sides.

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18 June 2016 13:29 Post ID: #471918 - in reply to #471037
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Looking at the betting markets the out vote has gone from odds of 7-1 two weeks ago to now being 5-2 the bookies tend to be better at judging the feeling than pollsters so i think it will be a close vote.
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18 June 2016 14:22 Post ID: #471921 - in reply to #471914
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In it's current format every capitalist system needs immigration.
That is an economic as well as a mathematical necessity.

Farage and Gove of course claim that they support immigration but wish to monitor the quality of immigrants that enters the UK.

Their argument is nonsensical.
Why would the likes of Starbucks,McDonalds and various cleaning firms need highly skilled workers ?

The majority of economic immigrants are deliberately brought in to do menial work,are cheap to employ,and pay taxes that benefit a unfair and biased system whose purpose is to enslave us.

That is why they are so important and the likes of Farage and Gove as well as Cameron and Osbourne know it.

Commonwealth migrants would be cheaper because the government would be free to set their own minimum wage.

There is very little legitimacy in their claims when it comes to immigration i'm afraid .

Of course the other side have come out with utter crap as well but ultimately the argument should be about economics and nationalism not immigration which WE have NEVER had a say in, be it Commonwealth or European.

Which is why I cringe every time Farage and co talk about WE gaining control over OUR borders.

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18 June 2016 16:15 Post ID: #471923 - in reply to #471037
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But its not just immigration its those fuckers in the EU who dictate everything this country can and cant do. Then you get fucking retards coming out with statements like this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648044/Britain-isolated-tr...

But little do they realise if the UK tells the EU to fuck off there will be a domino effect and everyone will want to leave and the EU will be fucked.
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18 June 2016 17:36 Post ID: #471924 - in reply to #471037
Hardly mentioned the impact of jobs being in or out of the EU but it wont make any real difference as the majority of goods are made by people getting a fiver a week in some 3rd world country anyway. In fact this may become cheaper to do depending on deals that we can set up ourselves instead of the set levies.
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18 June 2016 18:30 Post ID: #471925 - in reply to #471037
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Billy, I don't know whether you're forgetting that we're actually part of the EU and have MEPs there who we voted in and help towards the laws that are made. It's not as if some random bloke is just telling us what we can and can't do. We sit down and discuss the best way to move forward for the EU member states. Since 1999 the UK has agreed to 2,499 bits of legislation, disagreed with 59 and abstained from voting 70 times. So let's face it, the EU aren't ruling us if we help make the legislation and also agree to it.

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/your-meps/what_do_they_do.html

Edited by Officemonkey 18/6/2016 18:33
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18 June 2016 18:40 Post ID: #471926 - in reply to #471037
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

And the connection to the right wing has been confirmed.
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18 June 2016 18:53 Post ID: #471928 - in reply to #471926
Officemonkey - 18/6/2016 18:40

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

And the connection to the right wing has been confirmed.


Without even clicking that link, the BBC are well known for being run by the Government.
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18 June 2016 19:54 Post ID: #471931 - in reply to #471037
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At least two witness, Clarke Rothwell and Graeme Howard,heard the killer shout Britain first,Rothwell heard it during the attack and also when Mair was arrested.

If a person shouted allahu akbar as they did for example in those counter terror exercises in Manchester recently before shooting and stabbing a defenceless woman in our streets most fingers would be pointing towards Islam not Broadmoor hospital.



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18 June 2016 20:13 Post ID: #471932 - in reply to #471928
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Toon_NoMatterWot - 18/6/2016 18:53

Officemonkey - 18/6/2016 18:40

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

And the connection to the right wing has been confirmed.


Without even clicking that link, the BBC are well known for being run by the Government.


Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain", when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

One can assume that is because she was either a remain supporter or because she is well known for fighting racism etc.

I wonder what or who he has been influenced by recently. Hmmm, I wonder.
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18 June 2016 20:22 Post ID: #471933 - in reply to #471923
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billybobcat - 18/6/2016 16:15

But its not just immigration its those fuckers in the EU who dictate everything this country can and cant do.



In the year ending December 2015 EU net migration was 184,000 compared to 188,000 from outside the EU.

I'm pretty sure Brussels had sweet fa to do with those from outside the EU.
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18 June 2016 20:26 Post ID: #471935 - in reply to #471037
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Too many people blaming the EU for government issues and also austerity.
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18 June 2016 21:00 Post ID: #471938 - in reply to #471932
Officemonkey - 18/6/2016 20:13

Toon_NoMatterWot - 18/6/2016 18:53

Officemonkey - 18/6/2016 18:40

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36567005

And the connection to the right wing has been confirmed.


Without even clicking that link, the BBC are well known for being run by the Government.


Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain", when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.

One can assume that is because she was either a remain supporter or because she is well known for fighting racism etc.

I wonder what or who he has been influenced by recently. Hmmm, I wonder.


All im saying is that many stories or things are planted in life and there's times that I believe nowt that is reported aside from what they're covering up. The BBC being one of the worst.

That said, I know many other media outlets have reported the same stuff but even if true, it still leaves many unanswered questions.
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18 June 2016 21:00 Post ID: #471939 - in reply to #471037
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2000200025
Just wait till the EU let Turkey come on in and they will. If the country decides to stay in the EU they cannot complain nomatter what the EU decide to do because they have voted to stay.
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18 June 2016 21:49 Post ID: #471940 - in reply to #471037
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They will never be in the EU. They tick one box out of thirty or something daft. Then everyone has the power of veto. Cyprus will never allow it. People really need to get over this Turkey thing.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/25/vote-leave-tur...
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18 June 2016 22:04 Post ID: #471942 - in reply to #471037
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Well if we remain you wont be moaning on i take it OM if the EU stiff the UK.
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18 June 2016 22:29 Post ID: #471944 - in reply to #471037
I know we said that it's wrong to link the murder of the MP with the referendum but this is day 3 of it being all over the news and time is running out for the campaigns to sway the vote.

I wont apologise for questioning why we're being force fed the sad stories.
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