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EU Referendum
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27 May 2016 13:17 Post ID: #471037
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So then... Obviously it is drawing near but what is your stance? I'm firmly in the remain camp.

I think a lot of people are attacking the EU for flaws in the successive UK governments, which is obliviously completely misguided.
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27 May 2016 13:56 Post ID: #471041 - in reply to #471037
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Still undecided!

Thought of being controlled by Brussels and a strong German and a lesser French influence doesn't appeal to me, we fought 2 world wars against the kraut fuckers and the French are surrender monkeys.

However there are some benefits of staying especially for the region, cant count on the government cos they give us fuck all!
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27 May 2016 14:35 Post ID: #471043 - in reply to #471037
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Certainly leave. We as a country need to control our borders and self govern without the European Human Rights etc that can overturn decisions made within our borders. Too much money is spent on foreign aid. The concessions Cameron got from the EU when on his trip months ago are worthless. I hope the result is a leave and a domino effect starts.
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27 May 2016 15:33 Post ID: #471047 - in reply to #471037
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they will fix it so the vote goes their way lads, they are cunts only out to grease their own fucking hands when they leave politics.
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27 May 2016 16:03 Post ID: #471049 - in reply to #471037
Totally unsure. The key flaw in the leave option at the moment is there's nothing set out about how things would work should we leave the EU. How can you have a referendum with complete uncertainty versus the status quo ? Typical Tory move , offer the referendum but never once allow the people to make an informed decision. Tempted to vote leave just to fuck up Cameron .
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27 May 2016 16:04 Post ID: #471050 - in reply to #471043
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The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 14:35

Certainly leave. We as a country need to control our borders and self govern without the European Human Rights etc that can overturn decisions made within our borders. Too much money is spent on foreign aid. The concessions Cameron got from the EU when on his trip months ago are worthless. I hope the result is a leave and a domino effect starts.


Borders and immigration policy will not change due to Shengen agreement. Next.
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27 May 2016 16:05 Post ID: #471051 - in reply to #471049
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keggy_keagal - 27/5/2016 16:03

Totally unsure. The key flaw in the leave option at the moment is there's nothing set out about how things would work should we leave the EU. How can you have a referendum with complete uncertainty versus the status quo ? Typical Tory move , offer the referendum but never once allow the people to make an informed decision. Tempted to vote leave just to fuck up Cameron .


Good one, vote us out of EU and give the Tories free reign. You stick it to them!
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27 May 2016 16:20 Post ID: #471052 - in reply to #471037
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Definitely leave.



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27 May 2016 16:20 Post ID: #471054 - in reply to #471050
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Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 16:04



Borders and immigration policy will not change due to Shengen agreement. Next.


If that is the case then why do politicians (many who have been in the business for several years) have it as one of the out campaign major issues?
And if you think that if the country votes to stay in that the EU will not shaft us on taking more migrants etc then you my friend are blinkered ! next
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27 May 2016 16:20 Post ID: #471055 - in reply to #471051
Ask yourself why would Cameron decide to offer a referendum then imply it was against National Security to leave ? So the Prime Minister is quite happy to risk the nation's safety at the polls ? Why are the Tory party by and large so pro remain ? I'm not saying I'm pro brexit or pro remain but we're being asked to make a decision with very little in the way of reliable information and both sides relying on rhetoric and spin. Nothing Cameron and Osborne has done has benefited me or my family so I'd be lying if I said the instinct to lean towards the opposite of what they support isn't tempting .

Edited by keggy_keagal 27/5/2016 16:23
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27 May 2016 16:21 Post ID: #471056 - in reply to #471037
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Anything to stick it up that old cunt Merkel she looks like Hitler with tits.
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27 May 2016 16:43 Post ID: #471059 - in reply to #471037
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That owld fecker Ted Heath had a lot to answer for. Sold all our fishing rights as part of the entry terms.
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27 May 2016 16:56 Post ID: #471060 - in reply to #471054
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The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 16:20

Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 16:04



Borders and immigration policy will not change due to Shengen agreement. Next.


If that is the case then why do politicians (many who have been in the business for several years) have it as one of the out campaign major issues?
And if you think that if the country votes to stay in that the EU will not shaft us on taking more migrants etc then you my friend are blinkered ! next


It wouldn't be like Farage et al to be racist and xenophobic would it to stir up their bread and butter skin heads would it?

In addition, immigration provided 2.5bn of net profit in the last year. Lest we forget that thousands of British people leave each day too. They're call ex-pats though. By sanctimonious people of course.
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27 May 2016 16:59 Post ID: #471062 - in reply to #471055
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keggy_keagal - 27/5/2016 16:20

Ask yourself why would Cameron decide to offer a referendum then imply it was against National Security to leave ? So the Prime Minister is quite happy to risk the nation's safety at the polls ? Why are the Tory party by and large so pro remain ? I'm not saying I'm pro brexit or pro remain but we're being asked to make a decision with very little in the way of reliable information and both sides relying on rhetoric and spin. Nothing Cameron and Osborne has done has benefited me or my family so I'd be lying if I said the instinct to lean towards the opposite of what they support isn't tempting .


I hate the Tories with a passion also, especially those two wankers. However, what they're saying on this is correct, as backed up by many academics and institutions.

There's no way I want Cameron et al left to their own devices, especially as no legislation can be entrenched so they can just add in and take out what they please when they like.
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27 May 2016 17:09 Post ID: #471063 - in reply to #471060
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Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 16:56

[

It wouldn't be like Farage et al to be racist and xenophobic would it to stir up their bread and butter skin heads would it?

In addition, immigration provided 2.5bn of net profit in the last year. Lest we forget that thousands of British people leave each day too. They're call ex-pats though. By sanctimonious people of course.


But its not just Farage and his ilk is it?
Are all Brexit politicians against total immigration? I doubt it! just more control. You mention 2.5 bn net profit, is that measured against the immigrants that are official? what about the ones who pile across and dissapear, the "students" who come across on bogus student visas and end not leaving & working cash in hand.....no taxes. etc
todays figures released show 330 000 net increase of migrants into the country, that equates to another town !!! where does this stop ?

not against migration myself ...if its skills and professions the country need etc all for it .....a bit like the aussie system.
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27 May 2016 17:18 Post ID: #471064 - in reply to #471037
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Isn't only 10% of Britain urbanised? There's plenty of room. These people don't all stay either. Many are travellers like God knows how many of us have done in our youth etc.

It would appear the majority of Brexit officials are hanging their hat on immigration with absolutely sweet fuck all in terms of what happening next if we were to leave. They can't provide any facts and they refuse to tell people that immigration won't change.
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27 May 2016 17:37 Post ID: #471065 - in reply to #471037
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Of course they stay, our population is forever growing we are in the top 10 of EU countries for population growth.Yes alot of people travelled in their youth for 2 weeks every summer or a gap year. Ask people based on the south coast if they dont stay.The most popular boys name last year for new borns was Mohammed or its derivitives, these people are staying.
the Brexit officials are perhaps looking at Norway as an example a thriving economy who are not in the EU.
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27 May 2016 17:56 Post ID: #471066 - in reply to #471037
Our support of Newcastle United brought us to this forum and we can't even be on the same side so how they expect a bunch of countries with different languages, cultures and traditions to work together is beyond me.

We're better off out of it. We managed before it was formed and we'd manage again.
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27 May 2016 17:58 Post ID: #471067 - in reply to #471037
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It's a fact that legal immigrants pay far more into the system than they take out. It's also accepted that nobody knows the true number of illegal immigrants. A growing economy needs immigration but we need to be able to control which immigrants we accept, like Australia.

Cameron came back from that February summit with sweet fuck all in terms of border control. Once we have 80m Turks in the EEC where the hell does it stop. Like it or not the in/out vote will be won or lost entirely on the immigration question. In general I would guess the Labour controlled areas will vote out and theTtory controlled areas will vote to stay in. There will be exceptions like Kent and Lincolnshire whose streets are overrun by drunken immigrants.
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27 May 2016 18:06 Post ID: #471068 - in reply to #471037
Academy
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I want the UK to remain in control so will be voting out.

Watch this if you thinking about staying in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

If you vote in we lose control of our country. No one in Europe likes us as we are different and therefore we find it hard ever to muster enough support for anything. I deal a lot with Europe and people from Spain, Italy, and Greece wish they had never joined...



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27 May 2016 18:24 Post ID: #471069 - in reply to #471065
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The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 17:37

Of course they stay, our population is forever growing we are in the top 10 of EU countries for population growth.Yes alot of people travelled in their youth for 2 weeks every summer or a gap year. Ask people based on the south coast if they dont stay.The most popular boys name last year for new borns was Mohammed or its derivitives, these people are staying.
the Brexit officials are perhaps looking at Norway as an example a thriving economy who are not in the EU.


Norway have had to use Free Movement of people as part of their agreement. They still pay the EU but have no say at the table.
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27 May 2016 18:28 Post ID: #471072 - in reply to #471068
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Bazza1603 - 27/5/2016 18:06

I want the UK to remain in control so will be voting out.

Watch this if you thinking about staying in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTMxfAkxfQ0

If you vote in we lose control of our country. No one in Europe likes us as we are different and therefore we find it hard ever to muster enough support for anything. I deal a lot with Europe and people from Spain, Italy, and Greece wish they had never joined...





We're increasingly getting Brexiteers commenting "Watch Brexit the Movie!"... so I did.

Here's my take on it. The whole documentary is about the need for deregulation. It's fundamentally a neoliberal infomercial, painting history through the mantra of deregulation leads to growth and regulation leads to stagnation. They tell us that the EU is over-regulated, so we need to get out - and then we will economically prosper. That's the thesis. The only problem is that they have no business/ economist backing whatsoever. Instead of interviewing CEOs of Airbus, Rolls-Royce, etc (all of which have come out for Remain), the documentary interviews just the standard clique of Nigel Lawson, Daniel Hannan, James Delingpole, Nigel Farage, etc... Politicians and right-wing journalists - with Kate Hoey thrown it.

So with an economic argument fallen flat, we're left with their wrapping of "freedom" and claims to support the little man against the Euro elite. Two problems here. Firstly, a "free" Britain could not make its "own laws" all the time when dealing in the international space. So to "go global" and make all those spiffing trade deals, there needs to be agreements on regulations. That's what the single market is. Agreed standards. Right now our governments and MEPs are elected by us and vote on cross-border agreements. If we pull out - how do we get a democratic say? We don't. And we don't gain freedoms on Brexit, we lose them. We lose freedom of movement, freedom to hire from the EU visa-free, freedoms of access to the single market, freedoms associated with the working time directive potentially, rights to cross-border care potentially. What are the freedoms these Brexiteers speak of then? It is simply their own freedom to rule this country. Little people get no more freedoms as the neoliberals roll their protections away.

Finally, they blame the EU for everything - including declining fish in the sea (which, incidentally has been a problem since bottom-trawling began some 150 years ago), even peddling the myth of the Dutch trawler that takes 25% of the UK quota (a problem of allocation at the UK government level - not the EU's diktat). They also imply that all those EU regulations that swirl around us are unique in the world. They are not. In fact, the UK has its own stunning bureaucracy and love of gold-plating of EU regulations. So why aren't they attacking that? Simple - it's a bigger ideological thing. They want us to vote leave so that they can take control and pursue their glorious economic deregulation, unshackled - because you help the little person by taking away environmental, social and health protections.
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27 May 2016 18:29 Post ID: #471073 - in reply to #471037
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That's someone else's piece btw.
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27 May 2016 18:37 Post ID: #471074 - in reply to #471037
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http://infacts.org/vote-leave-lying-saying-send-eu-350-million-week...

Oh and if we remain, we lose nothing, especially not control. It's worth understanding constitutional and administrative law before making those assumptions.
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27 May 2016 18:40 Post ID: #471075 - in reply to #471037
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Good article regarding immigration and why the Tories are to blame, not the EU.

http://infacts.org/latest-migration-data-give-brexiteers-limited-am...
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27 May 2016 19:01 Post ID: #471077 - in reply to #471037
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I think we will have to agree to disagree
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27 May 2016 19:03 Post ID: #471078 - in reply to #471077
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Big corporations would have to pay tax in the UK if we leave Europe...
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27 May 2016 19:15 Post ID: #471079 - in reply to #471078
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Bazza1603 - 27/5/2016 19:03

Big corporations would have to pay tax in the UK if we leave Europe...


If we leave it in the hands of the Tories? Once again I think you're getting mixed up with the problems this government has brought and the EU which had nothing to do with it.
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27 May 2016 19:17 Post ID: #471080 - in reply to #471037
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What did the EU ever do for the UK?

Not much, apart from:
providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
cleaner beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead-free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
Strongest voice in the WTO
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling;
counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.

All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.

It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.

Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these.

You in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney, University of York
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27 May 2016 19:20 Post ID: #471081 - in reply to #471077
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The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 19:01

I think we will have to agree to disagree


That's fair enough if you've read the facts. Something the Brexit campaign have given very little (if anything) of.

Edited by Officemonkey 27/5/2016 19:21
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27 May 2016 19:30 Post ID: #471082 - in reply to #471050
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Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 16:04

The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 14:35

Certainly leave. We as a country need to control our borders and self govern without the European Human Rights etc that can overturn decisions made within our borders. Too much money is spent on foreign aid. The concessions Cameron got from the EU when on his trip months ago are worthless. I hope the result is a leave and a domino effect starts.


Borders and immigration policy will not change due to Shengen agreement. Next.


We are not party to shengen. Next
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27 May 2016 19:39 Post ID: #471083 - in reply to #471037
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Yeah, the Shengen agreement is mainland Europe. Should've made that more clear. Cheeky twat ;)
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27 May 2016 19:42 Post ID: #471084 - in reply to #471081
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Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 19:20

The Pyrry - 27/5/2016 19:01

I think we will have to agree to disagree


That's fair enough if you've read the facts. Something the Brexit campaign have given very little (if anything) of.


Its not that mate, anyone can quote whoever for or against has you have, but i am sure for every champion of remaining there is another voicing his facts for leaving.
Big business is split certainly the FTSE 100 is, poloticians and economists. along with the average joe public.
We are currently in the EU and have all the things that you previously outlined above, a victory for the Brexit campaign does not mean all that would vanish. We would be in a position to pick and choose which of those laws / legislation are a positive for the country and its inhabitants. Pretty sure there are some laws passed by them that we as a country would love to abolish. Oh and the upcoming EU army what a joke !!!! The money we as a country hand over to the EU everyday could be spent to offset what tariffs/ levys we receive already for farmers say or enticing big businees to stay in the UK in the way of more competitive taxes / intrests etc.

as i say agree to disagree
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27 May 2016 19:43 Post ID: #471085 - in reply to #471037
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Haha! Just reigning ya in there cowboy!
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27 May 2016 19:47 Post ID: #471086 - in reply to #471037
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I'm quite surprised there are still a few undecided but fair enough - not a crime! The fact is there are risks either way and you just got to go with what you feel, as much as what you believe, to be correct.
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27 May 2016 19:54 Post ID: #471087 - in reply to #471085
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Finn_the_Dog - 27/5/2016 19:43

Haha! Just reigning ya in there cowboy!


Like days of old!
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27 May 2016 19:56 Post ID: #471088 - in reply to #471037
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27 May 2016 19:59 Post ID: #471089 - in reply to #471037
Academy
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I'm voting for out, I won't be posting anymore on the subject...over and out.
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27 May 2016 19:59 Post ID: #471090 - in reply to #471088
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Officemonkey - 27/5/2016 19:56

Regarding the EU army... http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/27/is-there-a-secret-p...

thank the lord for that
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27 May 2016 20:09 Post ID: #471091 - in reply to #471037
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I agree!
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