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Random quote: Kevin Keegan - “I saw an interview where Alan Pardew said he hoped to get some of that £35million. I thought: ‘Alan, you ain’t going to get any of that.’
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Florian Thauvin Signs 5 Year Deal
20 August 2015 12:18 Post ID: #462210 - in reply to #462209
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Lets hope he is as good as Ben Arfa (about whom I still have my reservations btw). Then we could soon be nearly back to where we were in 2011. Just needing a decent striker (could be Mitro - but somehow I doubt it) and a centre half to replace the aging colo. The trouble is all the other teams have improved in the meantime.
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20 August 2015 14:05 Post ID: #462211 - in reply to #462036
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French journalist has said he's way off Ben Arfa.
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20 August 2015 14:29 Post ID: #462212 - in reply to #462211
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thank fuck for that
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20 August 2015 16:56 Post ID: #462213 - in reply to #462036
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That's unfair McCreery and you know it.

Ben Arfa was a world class player until Pardew ruined him through a combination of bad coaching and force feeding.
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20 August 2015 17:40 Post ID: #462217 - in reply to #462036
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Aye...apologies

I'd forgotten that everytime Ben Arfa scored a worldy Pardew used to make him eat Krispy Kremes till his pumps smelt of fondant

Pardew just couldn't bare those two class goals a season
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20 August 2015 18:40 Post ID: #462219 - in reply to #462036
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20 August 2015 18:41 Post ID: #462220 - in reply to #462036
5 goals, 7 assists last season in 38 appearances for Marseille. Can play either flank too.
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20 August 2015 21:49 Post ID: #462224 - in reply to #462036
Ben Arfa was ruined here under the regime and the staff. A simple case of right player, wrong era.

Under Keegan or Sir Bobby, we'd be talking about him in completely different terms.
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20 August 2015 22:05 Post ID: #462225 - in reply to #462036
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A couple of facts toony.

Carver worked as assistant to Sir Bobby.

4 players that were not ruined under the regime or staff

Mathieu Debuchy
Demba Ba
Yohan Cabaye
Loic Remy
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20 August 2015 22:16 Post ID: #462226 - in reply to #462036
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My take on it for what it's worth is De Jong ruined it for the lad with that horrific challenge when his tibia and fiibia were broken. He was never the same after that. Operations, rehab in France and Tunisia took close on a year out of his career. I remember another player of similar talent who had a bad injury at Palace and he was never the same again. Just the older lads will remember him, Tony Green.
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20 August 2015 22:55 Post ID: #462227 - in reply to #462036
In retrospect I'm of the opinion that Ben Arfa's failure here was about Ben Arfa as much as it was about Newcastle United and Pardew . It's not like there wasn't baggage before ;problems at Clairefontaine, Lyon, Marseille , Here , French national side and Hull aren't coincidences. The only common denominator in all of those instances was Hatem. He's still one of the most naturally gifted footballers I've seen and I'm equally convinced if a brave manager were to build a side around him he'd do wonders but it's pointless saying Bobby would have done this or KK that as both of those could equally wash their hands of a player if they felt like it and weren't infallible tactically or when it came to signing people neither.

Edited by keggy_keagal 20/8/2015 22:56
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20 August 2015 23:40 Post ID: #462228 - in reply to #462036
For me, it's all about the manager.

As good as Ginola was under Keegan, he was one of the first to get the huff with Dalglish. Different blokes expecting different aspects of work with Keegan focusing on supplying him or getting him attacking and Dalglish concentrating on getting him more involved with the defence.

The same applies with many players with different managers.

It's no coincidence that Ben Arfa's defensive or contribution 'issues' weren't mentioned when Hughton was here
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20 August 2015 23:43 Post ID: #462229 - in reply to #462225
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PieMag - 20/8/2015 22:05

A couple of facts toony.

Carver worked as assistant to Sir Bobby.

4 players that were not ruined under the regime or staff

Mathieu Debuchy
Demba Ba
Yohan Cabaye
Loic Remy



I'll add to that PM......

Hugo Vianna
Carl Cort
Kieren Dyer
Titus Bramble
Nicky Butt
Bassedas
Etc...etc..

All players who didn't flourish under the 'legendary' Robson period

There is some absolute fuckin bullshit spoken when trying to look for scapegoats
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20 August 2015 23:55 Post ID: #462230 - in reply to #462036
Id say there's absolute bullshit spoken about Pardew being absolved of blame for the shit period we had just gone.

We may have had shit results and players throughout our history but when the bloke in charge is an arsehole, it makes everything ten times worse. The combination of the staff and regime have single handedly turned loads away from their loyalty.
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21 August 2015 00:11 Post ID: #462231 - in reply to #462036
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I've never seen anybody absolve Pardew of blame for what went on....not one

What you are basically saying is that all managers have their failures but if they're a canny owld sort it makes it easier to accept


Not in my book mate....I'm not that fickle
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21 August 2015 00:56 Post ID: #462233 - in reply to #462231
McCreery - 21/8/2015 00:11

I've never seen anybody absolve Pardew of blame for what went on....not one

What you are basically saying is that all managers have their failures but if they're a canny owld sort it makes it easier to accept


Not in my book mate....I'm not that fickle


In theory, I guess that's the case..

*goes off to check manager Win, Draw stats.
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21 August 2015 03:29 Post ID: #462234 - in reply to #462036
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pardew & carver & now the blazered one are just part of his making money scheme for his yacht fund.
How anyone trusts this fucker with our club is beyond me,bairns walking round with wonga tops on makes me angry & could make me weep,shamefull.
Hope we get hammered against the mancs & tubby get's run out of town otherwise this could go on for years.8th fuck off.I want my club back.
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21 August 2015 08:08 Post ID: #462236 - in reply to #462229
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McCreery - 20/8/2015 23:43

PieMag - 20/8/2015 22:05

A couple of facts toony.

Carver worked as assistant to Sir Bobby.

4 players that were not ruined under the regime or staff

Mathieu Debuchy
Demba Ba
Yohan Cabaye
Loic Remy



I'll add to that PM......

Hugo Vianna
Carl Cort
Kieren Dyer
Titus Bramble
Nicky Butt
Bassedas
Etc...etc..

All players who didn't flourish under the 'legendary' Robson period

There is some absolute fuckin bullshit spoken when trying to look for scapegoats


Remind me if any of those named, ever went on to better things after leaving NUFC.

Thought not......
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21 August 2015 08:28 Post ID: #462238 - in reply to #462036
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So you're agreeing that Robson bought some shit and failed to make certain players any better than when he first signed them

In fact you've gone a stage further and suggested that Robson actually ruined a fair few careers
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21 August 2015 08:40 Post ID: #462239 - in reply to #462036
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No manager gets every signing right. Ferguson has bought Obertan, Bellion, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson and a fair few others who were dogshit. For all Ben Arfa's problems I would still trust Keegan and Robson to get more out of him than Dalglish or Pardew simply because there style of football was an offensive one and not a defensive one.

You also might want to compare Robsons managerial record to Pardews. I don't even know why they are mentioned in the same sentence. Has Robson pushed a linesman, swore at an opposing manager, nutted an opposition player. This defence of Pardew is laughable.






[yotube=watch?v=Fu0WxU4O_MU]

Here's some highlights


Edited by vin1892 21/8/2015 08:52
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21 August 2015 09:33 Post ID: #462240 - in reply to #462239
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It's all a matter of perspective Vin...

I'm certainly not defending Pardew the man....rather his position as Newcastle United manager. He wasn't given a chance to fail on his own merits as Ashley continually pulled the rug. In fact I personally think Pardew did ok under the circumstances

Whereas Robson presided over one of the most disappointing seasons in recent memory which culminated in the vast majority of the St James' faithfull walking out in a huff

Robson is obviously well respected in world football but he could have definitely handled Bellamy, Vianna, Jenas and Dyer better than he did. To assume that all of the recent failings would have been dealt with better in the past just simply isn't true
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21 August 2015 09:46 Post ID: #462241 - in reply to #462036
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My perspective on the matter Mac is if Pardew was unhappy with the hand he was dealt, which I most certainly think he did, why did he come out with shit like `I'm happy with the squad', `we could be challenging for Champions League', `this win is dedicated to Mike', `Mike's a fan believe me', `Carroll's not for sale at any price'. Irrespective of his managerial ability, which is average if anything, the bloke's a liar, a fraud and blamed the failings at NUFC on everything and everybody other than the one person who was ultimately to blame. The bloke was a coward just like Wise, Kinnear, Llambias, Carver, Stone, Bearsdley, Moncur and the rest who will tow the party line as long as they getting well remunerated.

P.S. - That season was only disappointing because 5th seemed such a let down after 3rd and 4th place finishes. That's not going to happen again in my lifetime. The top clubs are getting further and further away from us financially with each passing year.

Edited by vin1892 21/8/2015 09:54
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21 August 2015 09:56 Post ID: #462242 - in reply to #462036
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I agree Vin....I just don't think some of the other things levelled at him are particularly true and they are the issues I speak up on
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21 August 2015 10:12 Post ID: #462243 - in reply to #462036
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I disagree on your P.S there though.....that 5th place finish was so disappointing because 4th place was there for the taking and was it not for an unbalanced squad who seemed to be taking the absolute piss we would have taken it. The same season Robson said he was 'happy with his squad' and was 'keeping his powder dry'

Wasn't that also the season he had the falling out with Dyer for wanting to play him out of position because we didn't have a proper right winger ??

these are the kind of double standards I have a problem with....Robson plays Dyer out on the wing = Dyer gets all the shit....Pardew plays Sissoko out on the wing = Pardew gets all the shit (despite Sissoko being the best wide right player in the squad)

.

Edited by McCreery 21/8/2015 10:24
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21 August 2015 10:26 Post ID: #462244 - in reply to #462036
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No doubt Robson lost the respect of the squad and Dyer got the shit for playing on the wing because he threw the captains arm band on the ground (at Middlesbrough) if my memory serves me right, plus he was a right cunt to boot. Likewise I think Pardew got all the shit because people simply didn't like him - for all of the reasons mentioned above.
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21 August 2015 10:46 Post ID: #462246 - in reply to #462238
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McCreery - 21/8/2015 08:28

So you're agreeing that Robson bought some shit and failed to make certain players any better than when he first signed them

In fact you've gone a stage further and suggested that Robson actually ruined a fair few careers


Answer the question, did any of them go on to do better????
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21 August 2015 11:09 Post ID: #462247 - in reply to #462036
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I've got absolutely no idea to be honest.....gut feeling says no they didn't go on to do 'better'

Could you explain the relevance of the question though please ??
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21 August 2015 11:16 Post ID: #462248 - in reply to #462244
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vin1892 - 21/8/2015 10:26

No doubt Robson lost the respect of the squad and Dyer got the shit for playing on the wing because he threw the captains arm band on the ground (at Middlesbrough) if my memory serves me right, plus he was a right cunt to boot. Likewise I think Pardew got all the shit because people simply didn't like him - for all of the reasons mentioned above.


But Ben Arfa is a little angel who just needed the comforting arm of a father figure type manager ??
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21 August 2015 11:26 Post ID: #462249 - in reply to #462247
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McCreery - 21/8/2015 11:09

I've got absolutely no idea to be honest.....gut feeling says no they didn't go on to do 'better'

Could you explain the relevance of the question though please ??


Quite simple.

If they went on to flourish elsewhere, you can then point the finger at the management.

Many of those named were bought highly recommended, the fact they did not at NUFC, and neither away from NUFC defeats your argument.
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21 August 2015 11:42 Post ID: #462251 - in reply to #462036
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let me get this right.....

Robson identified players HE wanted, paid a lot of money for the players HE wanted, coached the players HE wanted but because we didn't win anything with them and they didn't go on to 'better' things he takes no blame whatsoever??


oh aye...simple
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21 August 2015 11:55 Post ID: #462252 - in reply to #462248
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But Ben Arfa is a little angel who just needed the comforting arm of a father figure type manager ??


No - Ben Arfa would always be difficult but I just think an attacking team would suit his game more. I go back to my earlier point - Pardew got the blame for everything as people simply didn't like him because of his Ashley arse licking. He pretty much dug that hole for himself.
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21 August 2015 12:04 Post ID: #462254 - in reply to #462252
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vin1892 - 21/8/2015 11:55


But Ben Arfa is a little angel who just needed the comforting arm of a father figure type manager ??


No - Ben Arfa would always be difficult but I just think an attacking team would suit his game more. I go back to my earlier point - Pardew got the blame for everything as people simply didn't like him because of his Ashley arse licking. He pretty much dug that hole for himself.



That's the only bit I'm arguing against Vin...I can separate the issues that were completely of Pardews making from the issues that were directly down to Ashley

Judging Pardew's managerial record (or anyone's for that matter) under Ashley just doesn't paint the full picture
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21 August 2015 12:17 Post ID: #462255 - in reply to #462254
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McCreery - 21/8/2015 12:04

I can separate the issues that were completely of Pardews making from the issues that were directly down to Ashley



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21 August 2015 12:25 Post ID: #462257 - in reply to #462254
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McCreery - 21/8/2015 12:04

vin1892 - 21/8/2015 11:55


But Ben Arfa is a little angel who just needed the comforting arm of a father figure type manager ??


No - Ben Arfa would always be difficult but I just think an attacking team would suit his game more. I go back to my earlier point - Pardew got the blame for everything as people simply didn't like him because of his Ashley arse licking. He pretty much dug that hole for himself.



That's the only bit I'm arguing against Vin...I can separate the issues that were completely of Pardews making from the issues that were directly down to Ashley

Judging Pardew's managerial record (or anyone's for that matter) under Ashley just doesn't paint the full picture


I wouldn't disagree about judging anybody under Ashley (although he broke quite a few unwanted records) but if you look at Pardews overall managerial record it's pretty average. Palace is his chance to make people eat their words as he's in charge of coaching and the buying and selling of players so he'll live or die by his own sword. However I've got no doubt if things start to go wrong he'll be dishing out blame left, right and centre.

Edited by vin1892 21/8/2015 12:27
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21 August 2015 13:07 Post ID: #462260 - in reply to #462251
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McCreery - 21/8/2015 11:42

let me get this right.....

Robson identified players HE wanted, paid a lot of money for the players HE wanted, coached the players HE wanted but because we didn't win anything with them and they didn't go on to 'better' things he takes no blame whatsoever??


oh aye...simple


Still have not answered the question, did any of them go onto better things???

And do we know SBR identified them, or he was landed with them???
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21 August 2015 13:44 Post ID: #462262 - in reply to #462036
Robson and his staff identified players to sign. Take for example Lua Lua who was recommended by Mick Wadsworth (his former manager at Colchester) whilst serving as Robson's assistant.
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21 August 2015 13:44 Post ID: #462263 - in reply to #462036
Andy Brassell on Talksport has just described Thauvin as "a massive risk" who was apparently given tremendous support by Bielsa at Marseille and repaid him with massive strops. Should be interesting .

Edited by keggy_keagal 21/8/2015 13:50
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21 August 2015 14:02 Post ID: #462264 - in reply to #462263
keggy_keagal - 21/8/2015 13:44

Andy Brassell on Talksport has just described Thauvin as "a massive risk" who was apparently given tremendous support by Bielsa at Marseille and repaid him with massive strops. Should be interesting .


They're only called risks when it's not one of the sky clubs buying players.
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21 August 2015 14:24 Post ID: #462265 - in reply to #462264
Well everything I've heard or read says he's an underachieving mentalist. So I'd say that's a risk .
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21 August 2015 14:24 Post ID: #462266 - in reply to #462264
Fucking double post

Edited by keggy_keagal 21/8/2015 14:27
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